Bad sector

gotskov · #1 17-09-2003, 09:00

I have tried to make at backup of tomtom navigator 2 western europe.

I have used

clonyXXL 2,0,1,4
ccd4 Profiler 1,2
CloneCD 4,2,0,2
and a

liteon 48246 cd writer.

But it dosn't work.

I scanned it with conyxll
Used cdd4 profiler to set up
and used clonecd to read and burn.

Is there something i have forgotten/dont know?

emptyeighty · #2 17-09-2003, 09:41

What is it protected with?

Use protection ID to find out, if you don't know another way that is.

gotskov · #3 17-09-2003, 11:37

.....is the "protection" i get asking ClonyXXL.

I dont know "protection ID" but please tell me where to find it.

Btw. thanks for replying!

IceBreaker · #4 17-09-2003, 13:47

Man, not very forthcoming with details, are you?

I'm afraid you'll have 2B somewhat more precise if U want to expect any help.

1) When running ClonyX on the CD, what protection does it indicate?
I recommend U download the latest ClonyX, 2.0.1.5, get it here .

2) Do U use the same unit for reading AND writing?

3) Do U have the latest firmware 4 your drive(s)? This is ESPECIALLY important for the Liteons 4024xx and 4824xx, get the flash here (nb. the site is down 4 now, try later).

4) Even the latest Clony can show the wrong protection (some software makers modify the .exe headers to that effect!!). Have you tried running a bad sector test with ClonyX or (better) with Nero CDspeed's Scandisk ('Surface scan' option)? (CDspeed is freeware

)

5) Have U considered running Blindwrite's BWAbuilder to look 4 density variations (I doubt there are any, but just in case...)

6) What settings did U use with CloneCD, esp. when reading the CD?

7) Am I asking too many questions?

gotskov · #5 17-09-2003, 22:08

I will give you all the info you want. But honestly i have no idea which info you need. But just ask and i will answer anything as good as i can.

Thanks for taking your time to help me.

And now for tthe answers.

1,
I get the "defective sectors" with 2,0,1,4. I will try with the 2,0,1,5 later today.

2,
Yes some unit. (is that bad/wrong?)

3,
I never updated it so i guess no. Futher trys on making a backup will be done on my homecomputer. Same software but a liteon 52246 instead. This drive havn't been updated but i will do so when the site is up and running

4,
No but i will also do that later. The cd are currently at my work but i will bring them mhome and try here. Therefore it might take some days before i can try it.

(I hope you still will be there helping me?!?!)

5,
I have never try the program but i will try it. Is it easy to use?

6,
Reading

4X speed
Regenerate data sectors
intelligent bad sector scanner
sector skib:100
Fast error skip: Auto

Write

Write speed: MAX
Weak sectors: IGNORE
Always close last settings

(all taken from profiler)

7,
No of course not. You are just trying to help me, rigth? So ju keep asking!!!

Thanks for you help so far

5

emptyeighty · #6 18-09-2003, 11:35

Quote:

Originally posted by gotskov
.....is the "protection" i get asking ClonyXXL.

I dont know "protection ID" but please tell me where to find it.

Btw. thanks for replying!

http://protectionid.owns.it

No problemo, hombre, but i'll leave rest for Ice

IceBreaker · #7 18-09-2003, 11:45

OK LeerAchtzig, I'll take it from here

Gotskov:

Quote:

I will give you all the info you want. But honestly i have no idea which info you need

?! Read my previous post...

-

Quote:

I get the "defective sectors" with 2,0,1,4. I will try with the 2,0,1,5 later today.

Yep, try v2.0.1.5, though I doubt U will get anything new. "Defective sectors" is only a general term, and many protection schemes use bad sectors (amongst other things). There are also different types of bad sectors, some take much longer 2 read than others.

-

Quote:

Yes some unit. (is that bad/wrong?)

On the contrary, comrade - I just wanted to make sure U were using a modern unit 4 the reading part, which is even more important than the burning part. Your Liteon is a good writer and reader. It is said to have a few weaknesses when reading subchannel data, but I've never noticed it myself. In fact, it reads even better at HIGH speed! (yes, it seems contradictory, but it's true).

-

Quote:

I never updated it so i guess no.

Well U MUST as soon as possible. here's the link again to the firmware page. Even the 52246S doesn't need as much updating (updates only add compatibility for extra CD media). But this is especially important for the 4812xx, and probably the 4824xx as well - recent firmwares greatly enhance these writers' ability to handle copy-protection (especially audio from what I've gathered). Though you've got a data CD, I still recommend U upgrade the unit. (PS. If flashing in Windows, turn off ALL applications that are not necessary).

-

Quote:

No but i will also do that later.

Use CDspeed (it's free, get it here ) and run the 'Scandisk' test (tick only the 'surface scan' option). Continuous red areas will probably be deliberate read errors part of the protection. It would be interesting to see what the graph looks like...

-

Quote:

(I hope you still will be there helping me?!?!)

Never fear, Icebreaker is always here...and everywhere...and nowhere at the same time...

-

Quote:

I have never try the program but i will try it. Is it easy to use?

Yes BWAbuilder is very easy to use. It only comes with the latest versions of Blindwrite, but unlike Blindwrite, BWAbuilder needs no registration - it's free!
HOWEVER: I don't think U will need it. Only Securom 4.8+ and Starforce protections (used by PC-games only as far as I know) use density variation, and I doubt your CD has it. So U can forget about it - 4 now.

-

Quote:

Reading

4X speed
Regenerate data sectors
intelligent bad sector scanner
sector skib:100
Fast error skip: Auto
[...]

AHA! Now that's interesting...
Now there's one thing you should know - ClonyX isn't always reliable when it comes to profiling, whether for the read or write part. Sure, it can be trusted most of the time, but in some cases it cannot. For example, some versions Clony enable the 'weak sector' option, but in the case of (recent) Liteons, this setting MUST be disabled (which you did, so that's good), since Liteons don't need this option and can copy weak sectors 1:1.
Also, Clony sometimes advises to use 4x reading speed when reading disks with subchannel data or even some bad sectors, such as Safedisk 2+. As I said before, Liteons read such data even better at max speed (I've confirmed this myself). But I doubt the CD you have uses special subchannels..
Moreover - and that's the interesting part - Clony sometimes enables ISS (Intelligent Sector Scan). Now that setting is NOT recommended except for some rare bad sector protections featuring LARGE zones of data destruction such as 'Laserlok' or 'Ring Protech'. In such cases, the read errors cover such wide areas that they can be seen with the naked eye as one or more bright rings on the surface of the CD. 'Safedisk' (1 & 2+) also uses bad sectors, but in that case ISS must be disabled.
If U run CDspeed, the graph could give U a clue as to which protection this might be..
With ISS switched off, the reading will take much longer (over 15 minutes to several hours depending on the protection) as ALL units slow down on read errors, but at least the CD image will be correct.
So this I recommend: try reading the CD without ISS - and be patient... Adjust/modify the settings manually in CloneCD. Burn the image onto a CD-RW to avoid wasting another CD-R. If the copy still fails, try reading the original CD at MAX speed instead of 4X - for recent units, this doesn't change much when it comes to bad sectors...

-

Quote:

No of course not. You are just trying to help me, right?

Good. Expect more

gotskov · #8 18-09-2003, 11:50

Damn you have spend a lot of time helping me. I wanna thank you a lot for taking your time to help me.

I will try all the things you mentioned. It will proberly take some time cause am pretty much new at this.

But THANKS ALOT!!!!! If there were more peoble like you the world would be a better place!!!

Thanks again...i can'tsay it enouge!!

IceBreaker · #9 18-09-2003, 13:09

No prob - that's what the forum is for...

Quote:

Damn you have spend a lot of time helping me.

umm...less than 15 minutes, actually

-> don't forget Emptyeighty's suggestion (cf. his last post in the thread) and download 'Protection ID' - he provided a link in his post. I don't use that tool as it only deals with data CDs, but I've heard only good things about it. Can be used in conjunction with ClonyX - and it's also free..

Quote:

If there were more peoble like you the world would be a better place!!!

At last, someone who appreciates mighty IceBreaker in all his wisdom and glory

Quote:

Thanks again...i can't say it enough!!

I know - I expected at least 10 smilies

gotskov · #10 19-09-2003, 11:54

I forgot to say that i also have a pioneer dvdr 106 burner. Is it better than the liteon?

IceBreaker · #11 19-09-2003, 15:19

Negative, stick to Litey

Just have the firmware updated.

http://forum.rpc1.org/dl_firmware.ph...&manufactor=17

There are 2 versions of the 4824 drive: 48246K and 48246S, suggesting 2 different chipsets, so make sure U download the right firmware