REQ: Stolen trainers to be removed from GCW

[DABhand]

What Joe says is true, but Joe forgets we are talking about trainers and not applications

[Caliber]

to the person who wrote:

"If I am not mistaken, the CH content that appears on GCW are the 1 MB large "PROMO" trainers with +1 option? Hardly a loss if you ask me. "

You don't get it. it's not the Promos, it's the FULL TRAINERS once they are released to the public for free several weeks after the members get them first. The Promos worked as a way for users who might want the trainer early to sign up with us OR they can see what the FULL TRAINER will have when it's free in several weeks-

We posted like 40 or 50 FULL WORKING trainers a month here, not just the Promos, LOL-

best,
Cal

[EMPiRE]

To make things clear: I am totally against people taking/stealing code (any kind) from other people. Files from people using stolen code will not be posted @ GCW

Until now I NEVER received ANY concrete proof from the people claiming that KelSat (and h4x0r for that matter) are/were "stealing" code from any available trainers. Just making accusations that someone is doing anything is NO PROOF AT ALL for me! Therefor the files from KelSat were posted (until now that is)

I have been contacted by 2 persons last November who were claiming that KelSat was "stealing" their code, but my first impression was that at least one of them was "protecting" his own interest (obviously, nothing wrong with it, if you are thinking commercially)

I have asked KelSat directly if he was taking code from any available trainer (including the CH ones) and he was quite convincing in telling me that he was not doing so. Who to believe. I know better now...

As for h4x0r, this is the first time that I am reading that he is also taking code from existing trainers but again no proof...

Here are the email communications:

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 10-11-2008
From: Chris/CH
================================================== ==================================================

http://forum.cheatengine.org/viewtopic.php?t=312605

Some others that also realize KelSat is ripping off people’s trainers and submitting them as his own. ************* and a couple others have agreed to stop hosting his work. I wish you would consider the same.

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 13-11-2008
To: Chris/CH
================================================== ==================================================

My first reaction was to leave it be as I did not think KelSat was doing this but now Psych email me with the same thing

I have confronted KelSat with the accusations and have received a few emails from him in which he states that he has never taken code from the CH trainers

The way he is writing I tend to believe him

Most likely you are seeing similar options on both your trainers but I doubt they use the same code!

So is it possible we are accusing someone over something that is not true?

Anyway if he is lying then he is good at it and I think he won't try it again...

But keep in mind that reverse-engineering code is not illegal, I do not know if actual code was used or just the options. If it is true it is an ethical issue

And getting ripped off is a fact of live, I have to live with rippers like ************* who was a mirror site of GCW until he decided to duplicate my work (file, html: colors, table-setup, even the font he is using is the same as mine...)
I have accepted this and do not ask others not to upload their files to him... or should I ?!? It's the same thing...

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 13-11-2008
From: Psych
================================================== ==================================================

To whom it may concern, regarding gametrainers uploads.

Recently there has been several incidents of 'ripped' work, specifically
certain individuals taking it upon themselves to copy other
peoples' work and release it as their own. At present this issue, to my
knowledge, has only affected the work of CheatHappens.com, and I believe
they have already contacted you themselves about this issue.

However, we have reason to believe that it is not only their work which is
being affected, and its only a matter of time before we find out what other
work is being targetted. I can fully appreciate that it is impossible for
you to know this is going on, and you are only uploading submissions.

We can make a start however at preventing these incidents,
with your cooperation. The one individual we know about goes by the
name of 'Kelsat'. His releases always follow up to other major releases by
cheathappens within a day or so of them becoming available. We have both
analysed these trainers in detail and find them to be almost exact copies
of the work.

For now, it would be greatly appreciated if you could
remove all current submissions of Kelsat and prevent any
further additions from him. He is a ripper. Suppose these weren't just game
trainers that poke to memory, suppose they were software utilites.
Freeware or paid software it makes no different, its all the same principle. I
certainly wouldn't want to see these sorts of individuals get away with
this if they directed their attention to my own work. I can completely
understand the current predicament of cheathappens, and I concur with their
suggestion of contacting yourselves to request this.

Thanks for your time. Any consideration much appreciated!

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 13-11-2008
To: Psych
================================================== ==================================================

I have received a few emails from KelSat in which he states that he has never taken code from the CH trainers

The way he is writing I tend to believe him

Most likely Chris is seeing similar options on both their trainers but I doubt they use the same code!

So is it possible we are accusing someone over something that is not true?

Anyway if he is lying then he is good at it and I think he won't try it again...

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 13-11-2008
From: Chris/CH
================================================== ==================================================

Ripped us again. Option for option down the exact byte. Not sure why you continue to take his side.

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 14-11-2008
From: KelSat
================================================== ==================================================

I don't want the enemy. I just want to share my trainer with my skill.

Thought my skill of making trainer is not well, I can swear to god that I can make it by myself.

Like this Tomb Raider Trainer.

Why do I must copy code from CH if I have the ability?

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 14-11-2008
From: KelSat
================================================== ==================================================

I can swear to god I don't copy the code from their trainer.

It's all my trainer By myself.

You can see the trainer of Tomb_Raider_Underworld_V1.0_Demo_Plus_9_Trainer_By _KelSat

and see this web site http://www.cheathappens.com/show_bla...?titleID=13858

there is no trainer of this game in CH.

This can prove I can make the trainer by myself.

Maybe they think my trainer is cutting their client and income.

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 14-11-2008
From: KelSat
================================================== ==================================================

Ok, let's see another trainer from

Dead Space - Mega Trainer (U.S./English)

Features: Unlimited Hull Integrity, No Turret Overheating, Unlimited Oxygen, Unlimited Health, Unlimited Ammo, Duplicate Inventory, Add Credits, Add Upgrade Nodes, Unlimited Stasis, Save/Load Position (Teleport).

and My Trainer:
Dead Space V1.0 Plus 10 Trainer By KelSat

Shift+G - Unlimited Life
Shift+H - Unlimited Ammo
Shift+T - Unlimited Stasis
Shift+Y - Unlimited Credits
Shift+N - Unlimited Nodes
Shift+V - Unlimited Items
Shift+K - One Hit Kill
Shift+O - Save Position
Shift+P - Teleport
Shift+U - Undo Teleport

Why do I have only copied some functions from ch if i copy the trainer?

and where is the function "one hit kill" in trainer of ch?

================================================== ==================================================

As you can read they are just ACCUSATIONS and nothing more, no proof nothing...

Also some people think there is some exclusivity in the files posted @ GCW, I can tell you THERE IS NONE, all kinds of trainers will be posted I do not really care if it is professionally done or done my an amateur, even a +1 PROMO Trainer is a trainer for me! It has also nothing to do with quality over quantity as everything is posted... If a trainer works then great if it does not then so be it and try another trainer.

If people are thinking that a boycott (or any other crap) will make me think differently than think again, IT WILL NOT (don't make me laugh)

The only thing that will make me think differently is providing PROOF someone is stealing code

People like KelSat will always exist, if he stops releasing his trainer thru his own website then someone else will be doing so. IT IS A FACT OF LIFE, learn to live with it!

For now KelSat's trainers will not be posted anymore as he lied to me about stealing the code

[EMPiRE]

@PWizard: Maybe i did not make it clear in my reply, the information in this thread has convinced me that KelSat is ripping code and I wanted to make it clear that UNTIL this tread nothing concrete was ever given

For now KelSat's trainers will not be posted as he lied to me about stealing the code

[Jacardis]

OMG .. this ridiculous, bickering about code . im new here in forum , but i have been using gamecopyworld for longest im 35 years old and all you acting like bunch crying brats .
empire all respect to you and this place but my friend must say if you don't allow kelsat trainers to be posted then you might as well shut down all trainer section or shut down site . because all you doing is allowing cheatheaven to monopolize all game trainers . no longer will be no free trainers . in order to enjoy a game to fullist you got pay for a trainer... eh? missing something here .. already spend anywhere from 25 to 40 dollars on the game but then if i wanted a little more power i would have to go pay some website for a game trainer no not my style .

claims and accusation are all thats happening here . if you want to stop his trainers from being posted here im sure this will be a set back for all . not to mention from what i seen 90 % of the trainers posted are complements of kelsat and few others who SEEK NO PROFIT in doing what they do, unlike ch.

sorry but after reading all this i must say this topic should have been locked before it got any futher past page 1.

[Jacardis]

i have been to your site and was disapointed i been looking for a trainer that coincided with a game im very fond of stormrise. but when i saw you had one with limted option and had to purchase a full membership just to get it . that turned me off from your site, sorry.

[EMPiRE]

I know that posting CH PROMO's could be seen as supporting CH but as I told before ANY kind of trainer is a trainer for me, even a +1 option

I understand that CH is making money of trainers but they also have to pay the bills (hosting, people, etc). Their model is asking money for software, what is so strange about that! Just because trainers were free does not mean that they are wrong asking for money now.

You can disagree about this but if someone puts time into this (for some options it took al lot) why not ask something in return?

[Jacardis]

so whats wrong with people remaking free trainers? then if there is nothing wrong with making profit off trainers?

[Joe Forster/STA]

I couldn't say I got any wiser in this matter, even after the last few posts... TippeX, would you compare a pair of suspiciously identical trainers, please?

Originally Posted by Jacardis

so whats wrong with people remaking free trainers?

Remaking is fine, rereleasing is not.

[TippeX]

simple, 99.9% of them all use WriteProcessMemory to patch in the trainer code...
so we could have a tool (i guess i could make it if needed) which 'caught' the api call, and outputed what it would write, the size, and the location

we do this on both trainers, and analyse the code that would be injected...
we then compare it (taking rva's into account) and look for similar or identical byte patterns, which gives us a very early indication to the uniqueness of them (or otherwise)

[apache-yesitisme]

well well. here we are

My humble opinion is that i cant effing stand people who steal options ..i have had it happen to me in the past (yes..you know who you are) but what can you do?..indeed i have had fuckwits even accuse moi of ripping options..now come on anyone with half a head and a loaf of bread and who really knows me, knows i dont have to steal anyones options
i agree with the majority here that trainers should not have their files hosted until it can be safely proven its their own work but on the other hand just because cali and chris release a trainer with 5 options and the same day somebody else releases a trainer with equal options, why should it be labeled a ch rip? and as for some code areas ..come on we are all a little lazy and if 1 area of code does the job why go looking for a rare areas and especially concerning the ammo etc
i wont defend a trainer ripper ever, but why should one website dictate another?
it almost reads like cheathappens are saying that gcw would actually be hurt (hits wise, financially?) if cheathappens stops sending the 'promo' trainers or full after their release date, but what would stop anyone harvesting them (once ch has sent them to any other website)? as for 'promo'trainers, well they benefit the maker more than the host, i know this because i was the first(probably) person to make 'promo' trainers, a little respect for trainer makers goes a long way and lets hope that cheathappens screaming thief everytime a trainer is == to one of theirs won't put off the fledgling makers out there.
have they got the right to scream when somebody clones a trainer made by them?, if they can 100% prove it , then they sure have
but dictating what other site owners can do with their own site is over the top even if i do agree with banning kelsat's trainers for ripping
Now as for paying trainers..hmmm iam all for it!! and why not? i used to have this arguement with probably the same arseholes about the same reasons.
anyone who is anyone knows some pretty long hours go into making a trainer and even more into making a great trainer so why not expect reward for it whether its simply recognition or payment
plus it makes the competition stiffer and ecourages the free trainer makers to go beyond the norm and 'man-up' their own work so its a win -win situation for the enduser

[DABhand]

Originally Posted by Jacardis

OMG .. this ridiculous, bickering about code . im new here in forum , but i have been using gamecopyworld for longest im 35 years old and all you acting like bunch crying brats .
empire all respect to you and this place but my friend must say if you don't allow kelsat trainers to be posted then you might as well shut down all trainer section or shut down site . because all you doing is allowing cheatheaven to monopolize all game trainers . no longer will be no free trainers . in order to enjoy a game to fullist you got pay for a trainer... eh? missing something here .. already spend anywhere from 25 to 40 dollars on the game but then if i wanted a little more power i would have to go pay some website for a game trainer no not my style .

claims and accusation are all thats happening here . if you want to stop his trainers from being posted here im sure this will be a set back for all . not to mention from what i seen 90 % of the trainers posted are complements of kelsat and few others who SEEK NO PROFIT in doing what they do, unlike ch.

sorry but after reading all this i must say this topic should have been locked before it got any futher past page 1.

Luckily your not a mod, im 35 and calling me a crying brat without looking at what I know or have done makes you look stupid.

And what your brattish mind cant comprehend is Trainers take time to make, finding coding to manipulate can be quick but normally it takes a long time.

So like ive said before if Caliber wants to work for a bit of money when he is writing numerous trainers a week or updating trainers for new game updates, then that is his choice. Not yours.

This world doesnt revolve around people like yourself who think they deserve free trainers every bloody day, you probably dont even buy your games either. So instead of coming in here blowing your big horn because the possibility that you wont get all those free trainers you desire will slowly dwindle, go and get a life or something.

I cant be bothered talking to you anymore infact.

[DABhand]

Originally Posted by apache-yesitisme

well well. here we are

My humble opinion is that i cant effing stand people who steal options ..i have had it happen to me in the past (yes..you know who you are) but what can you do?..indeed i have had fuckwits even accuse moi of ripping options..now come on anyone with half a head and a loaf of bread and who really knows me, knows i dont have to steal anyones options
i agree with the majority here that trainers should not have their files hosted until it can be safely proven its their own work but on the other hand just because cali and chris release a trainer with 5 options and the same day somebody else releases a trainer with equal options, why should it be labeled a ch rip? and as for some code areas ..come on we are all a little lazy and if 1 area of code does the job why go looking for a rare areas and especially concerning the ammo etc
i wont defend a trainer ripper ever, but why should one website dictate another?
it almost reads like cheathappens are saying that gcw would actually be hurt (hits wise, financially?) if cheathappens stops sending the 'promo' trainers or full after their release date, but what would stop anyone harvesting them (once ch has sent them to any other website)? as for 'promo'trainers, well they benefit the maker more than the host, i know this because i was the first(probably) person to make 'promo' trainers, a little respect for trainer makers goes a long way and lets hope that cheathappens screaming thief everytime a trainer is == to one of theirs won't put off the fledgling makers out there.
have they got the right to scream when somebody clones a trainer made by them?, if they can 100% prove it , then they sure have
but dictating what other site owners can do with their own site is over the top even if i do agree with banning kelsat's trainers for ripping
Now as for paying trainers..hmmm iam all for it!! and why not? i used to have this arguement with probably the same arseholes about the same reasons.
anyone who is anyone knows some pretty long hours go into making a trainer and even more into making a great trainer so why not expect reward for it whether its simply recognition or payment
plus it makes the competition stiffer and ecourages the free trainer makers to go beyond the norm and 'man-up' their own work so its a win -win situation for the enduser

Hey patchster

I think I found your Enter button :P heheeh nahh im joking, I know your more than capable, and I agree this could have been handled better.

I agree perhaps nop'ing out a sub or add op same as both trainers should not be suspicious, but kelsat has used options with flaws in the coding that were deliberate and he copied the whole damn code.

I say we blame Sunbeam and his "How to update trainers" tutorial from a few years back, perhaps if tuts like that were not around maybe some of these numbnuts wouldnt know what they could do with olly.

[apache-yesitisme]

heya Dabs patchster..havent been called that for a long time ..ahh the good old days lmfao

Knowledge is power , so they say. but i think hindsight is a greater force

[Jacardis]

DABhand it's good thing your not mod either. because now i can just ignore your post regarding me as irrelevant trash post. all these post resolve around people expressing there opinions so i figure i express my own. this reason why i don't go to forum much anymore because there always some ass who thinks just because he got some dam high post count he can trash new members