Rise And Fall: CaW - Starforce 3.7

[peyre1]

I dont think any of this stuff really works , its all a conspiracy theory manufactured by the copy protectors so they get the last laugh.Can always remember when Lotus racing f1 team covering up their magic diff after every race when it was the side wings that made their cars go faster in the 70s. Who really wants to dismantle their pc pull off all the wires to their hard drives burn a copy to a certain rewitable disk. My god id sooner risk using the orriginal and take extra care not to scratch it. There is more chance messing with the inners of my pc and breaking it than any chance of ruining a replacable orriginal £ 34.50 disk. Is it me , or as the whole world gone mad.

[Zulu]

@Morglum007

Do those "accidental" copies of SF titles using version 3.5-3.7.13 run in every drive connected via MB's IDE channel ? Or do they only run in systems where a RMPS copy would run anyway (depending on ATAPI check) ?

e.g. my copy of DTM3 on CMCW03 does only authenticate in drive connected to RAID Controller when using device/subsystem_id change (just like with RMPS copy)

Phase1: Estimated RPM 1697.580 = 35.344 ms
Phase2: RPM 4726.927 = 12.693 ms (deviation 0.016 ms)
Phase2: SPR 39.462 = 48-17.79%
Phase4: RPM 4726.317 = 12.695 ms (deviation 0.010 ms)
Phase4: SPR 42.738 = 48-10.96%
Phase3: RPM changed by -0.01%
Phase3: Step 1: Angle 98 degree = 67+31 (SPR 40.0 = 9.0 deg/sector)
Phase3: Step 2: Angle 52 degree = 23+29 (SPR 40.6 = 8.9 deg/sector)
Phase3: Step 3: Angle 154 degree = 123+31 (SPR 41.1 = 8.8 deg/sector)
Phase3: Step 4: Angle 30 degree = 1+29 (SPR 41.7 = 8.6 deg/sector)
Phase3: Step 5: Angle 32 degree = 4+28 (SPR 42.2 = 8.5 deg/sector)
Phase3: Step 6: Angle 157 degree = 134+23 (SPR 42.7 = 8.4 deg/sector)

with other games my drive(s) forgive much bigger deviations, so that shouldn't be the reason (btw. CMCW03 seems to be the one to fit the phases of most 3.7.16 titles)

P.S. Great to see cdsteam site back (at least i haven't found it before )

[Morglum007]

As we have tested yet, these "accidental" copies will run almost everywhere ( by now).

Seems newer and "imbatible" Frontline disc check in the middle of discs closes too much to the required zone topology in such discs.

The 3.7 Sf games we have in Spain ( remember some of them havent been released yet, so i could not test with them) and i have tested works almost perfect: War on terror & Rise and fall. We have a little caotic here with same brands and different media codes ( viewable with DVD info pro for example), but we considered this previous "rumour" interesting and tested, with amazing results. I'm not the only one got working copies, we did test with 5 different people from different countries, so tests are perfectly valid.

We also tried different recorders to see if recorder had something to do, and result was...nothing, recorders does not matter, the important thing is the media.

We only noticed interesting problems with those Nforce chipset Mobo and controllers. Cloned DVD didnt work here till we unplug them from mobo and conected via USB, so thats the only issue we found. Seems SF makes check stronger in those motherboards.

As i stated in cdfreaks long ago, seems some of my guessings about MR (mount rainnier) and +R format was correct. We will continue testing.

In the other way, still looking for older SF DVD protected titles. At the end of disc track, seems SF still goes strong.

TIP: Those games didnt work on Nforce based system till verified from USB external drive (same disc). Maybe thats the ATAPI check u mention:

War on terror
Toca race driver 3
GTI - Racing
LA rush

[Grumpy]

@Morglum
Hello M, great to see cdsteam is back in business.

[Synbiote]

so, for what i can tell..Stafucks up the system again and the only way to get this game (and several other games released today) is:

Burn the image on a DVD+R of some specific type,
Or start hacking my registry, disable my IDE controller and HOPE it plays with DT4????

Great.. Man i'm gonna strap up, walk over to starfucks office and bomb those b**************** off to hell..

and knowing that i have DT4 installed on my PC i't ll probably not even work with my original disk >_<

[neptun]

@Morglum007

Are you saying that this method with burning to DVD+R\RW discs with certain mediacodes without emulation is not going to work with all nforce chipsets?Does the problem exsists only with the oldest nforce chipset or it is common for nforce , nforce 2 , nforce 3 and nforce 4 motherboards?

[Morglum007]

Originally Posted by neptun

@Morglum007

Are you saying that this method with burning to DVD+R\RW discs with certain mediacodes without emulation is not going to work with all nforce chipsets?Does the problem exsists only with the oldest nforce chipset or it is common for nforce , nforce 2 , nforce 3 and nforce 4 motherboards?

Unfortunatelly we dont know yet. We know Nforce based chipset (an nforce4 chipset i think) had problems with SF in the past, and now, we had problems again with it. Considering testing mobo is a relativelly new one, maybe problems goes both newer and older. I think, anyway, it is a newer RAID/IDE controller bug with such chipset. Nforce seems to make a mix between both, not being RAID or IDE at all. Maybe thats the problem.

I havent replies to u now, sorry :\

[neptun]

Maybe.I have nforce4 motherboard ( ASUs A8N-SLI Deluxe ) and in the past the strange controller helped me very much because i didn't need to unplug the drives physically when using image mounted in virtual drive but just disable the ide controller in device manager worked ( my harddisks are sata ).Toca race driver 3 worked for me with this method but Rise and Fall CaW doesn't work.I hope that new daemon tools pro which maybe will be released soon will fix the things by using virtual ide drive.

EDIT: Have you tried both with the nvidia ide drivers and with the standart MS drivers?In the past it did matter if you use the nvidia drivers or the standard ms drivers.

[Zulu]

Originally Posted by Morglum007

Seems SF makes check stronger in those motherboards.

So that might be the reason for my Toca/DTM3 not to run, too ? What do you mean when saying "stronger" (without getting too technical ) ?

Another example (this time without ID changes for my SiI0649): Blazing Angels 1.0 (3.7.13) doesn't run, but v1.01 (3.7.16) does, same DVD/drive.

P.S.: My IDE ports are blocked by my graphic card's vent (AC Silencer); so i was too lazy to try on normal IDE channel; will try Blazing Angels 1.0 at a friend this evening (i865P).

[Morglum007]

Originally Posted by neptun

Maybe.I have nforce4 motherboard ( ASUs A8N-SLI Deluxe ) and in the past the strange controller helped me very much because i didn't need to unplug the drives physically when using image mounted in virtual drive but just disable the ide controller in device manager worked ( my harddisks are sata ).Toca race driver 3 worked for me with this method but Rise and Fall CaW doesn't work.I hope that new daemon tools pro which maybe will be released soon will fix the things by using virtual ide drive.

EDIT: Have you tried both with the nvidia ide drivers and with the standart MS drivers?In the past it did matter if you use the nvidia drivers or the standard ms drivers.

We did, and no way. Still refuses to launch.

For the next question, we discovered long ago, that SF access in SMM mode for a while before launching ( SMM: Super Memory Mode aka BIOS level for most people (even a "higher" level that ring0)[suposelly to be imposible under windows running, but SF does using special micro flags]) and here SF detects HDs, drives, and so on. We also know SF "blacklisted" some RAID controllers long ago, by modifying some windows entries to take data from those "virtual raid". Thats maybe the reason SF detects both ATAPI/ATIP check (when available, not applyable to +R format in theory) under such controllers.
We was known some RAID SiS controllers were "sniffed" but we didnt suppose it did the same with nforce ones, but who knows.... Nforce chipset specs are not public, so, maybe SF found something we didnt yet to get full access as an IDE under RAID (overriding RAID advantages).

Up to day, we are still in the "testing ands supposing phase".
We cant be more accurate with this nforce related issue yet, as stated before.

CdSTeam

[neptun]

Thank you very much for this comprehensive explanation.I am happy that people like you exsist and help averge users like me who don't know as much as you to have a chance to make backup of discs protected with this new strong protections.I hope that you or the daemon tools creators will finally find a way to defeat starforce in general.If i can help with anything feel free to PM me.

[i_am_ugf]

I managed to play the game with burning on DVD+rw Benq Brand...The only problem is that it refuses to play on my NEC3500A but plays on my NEC 3520AW...

[AnotherNoob]

Do you think the game will be cracked ?

Is someone worling on the crack ?

Im just wondering, wont it be more easy to randomise the install og deamon tools ?

That way, starforce dont know how or where to look for deamon tools.

[noscript]

1. maybe
2. maybe
3. Daemon tools has to know where daemon tools is, too

[cptpooface]

I tried to read the info from the links but with the picture I couldn't figure out how to read it because it is too bright and I can't see any of it on my monitor, and the other ones in spanish. I have, however read a guide about another game that has the same protection. From what I understand if you have one of the discs mentioned, you can use the original dvd to make a image, then copy the image using alcohol 120% and disable the rmps copy. If you do this will the burned dvd act as an original dvd, (will it work without any crack)? Also do you need any anti-blacklisting tools or do anything else like unplugging the ide drives, or is the burned copy of the original all you need? I am sorry if this has been answered or is a hassle, like I said I couldn't read any of the links and I searched the forums. I would just like to have this info, because I don't think its worth unplugging the ide drives, its just too much of a hassle and I will just use the original until there is a crack (if there ever is a crack). Just out of curiosity, is this starforce protection the one everybody hates and was boycotting, and if it is, has anyone successfully cracked the protection?