Lame NoCD Cracks !

[Joe Forster/STA]

Hi DABhand,

Difference in physical yes, but ideals are the same im sure you will agree.

IT IS EXACTLY THE IDEAS IN WHICH PHYSICAL OBJECTS AND SOFTWARE DIFFER FROM EACH OTHER! This is exactly why many organizations are against e.g. software patents: you shouldn't be able to copyright an algorithm, just like an idea that someone else can also come up with, without "stealing" it from you. It would be very sad if scientists couldn't base their ideas on the ideas of other scientists - the development of technology would slow down a lot! Similarly, software patents are against the development of technology and mankind in general.

You can own a physical object, you can take it into your hand. But you cannot own a piece of software, as you cannot take it into your hand. Although I definitely wonder what's going to happen when they do create the technology of Star Trek's replicator which would be able to copy physical objects _exactly_ - then will copyright holders be really f*cked!

Say your making a game, hypothetically, and it gets warezed heavily, are you going to have the same enthusiasm as the last game?

In many cases, the game publisher pays a FIXED AMOUNT of money to the game developer. Which means, the game developer doesn't care about how many copies of the game have actually been sold. The game publisher invested money into the development of the game; now they want to get that money back plus as much profit as it is possible.

As it has already been pointed out, the fact that a game gets warezed may also mean that people are interested in it and like it - in short, it is a good game! If you are the enthusiastic type of game developer, you could even say, "hey, they [they, the publishers; not we, the developers!] sold a hundred thousand copies and there's an estimation of another few million warezed copies, MAN, DOES OUR GAME RULE!" Okay, that's a bit unrealistic... [Edit] Still, you could wonder why Valve took the distribution of Half-Life 2 into its own hands, by letting pre-purchasing customers download the encrypted game files, instead of the usual way of releasing it via the publisher...!

Joe

[k1rr3d]

The chinese warez factories that Joe refers to, MASS PRODUCE pirated games which they then sell all over the world. The extent to which they take their piracy is radical. The pirated cd's have the exact same label as the originals, they come packaged in a cd case that has labels identical to the originals and where the originals come with a manual, so does the pirated game.

You could very easily mistake the pirated game for an original, the only obvious give aways are:

1) All copies of the game have the same serial number, if a keygen is not included on the disk.

2) The sales person or should that be pirate (ahoy ! me maties !) asks you prior to purchasing whether you are familiar with the procedures involved in cracking a game.

I kid you not ! Every now and then our police (pirate-hunters) nab some fool at the airport smuggling in pirated games and movies, on other occasions they've raided (plundered/sacked?) some or other place and found up to as many as 12000 pirate copies of games and movies.

The point Im trying to make is as follows: It is the MASS PRODUCTION of pirated games that cause the most damage to game sales and those involved in mass production are largely unaffected by copy protection, they probably employ a number of crackers on a full-time basis.

The area in which copy protection is most effective, and only just, is in the preventing of gamers loaning their games to buddies while still playing them (both cant have the originals at the same time). This leaves me thinking about 2 things:

1) Is loaning a game to a buddy, once you've finished with it (so he uses the original disks while playing), OK ? or is this a form of piracy ? He didn't pay to play the game.

2) Is loaning a game to a buddy, while you're still playing it (with a NoCD crack), OK ? or is this a form of piracy ?

I would find it difficult to believe that there isn't one of us who hasn't done this !!!

In closing, copy protection is not an effective means of tackling piracy, not only is it largely ineffective but it also does not discriminate between honest customers and those using pirated software. Is the inconvenience caused to the honest customer justifiable in terms of the amount of piracy actually stopped ?

It's kinda like standing at the front door of your store and subjecting each customer to a body search before they leave the store, to make sure that none have stolen anything, irrespective of how much money they've just spent in your store. Meanwhile some thugs have ripped off the back door of the store and have stolen all your stock........The really sad thing is, the next day, your standing at the front of the store again...

I think until such time as a viable alternative is found, we're pretty much stuck with what we currently have... Im currently playing Sid Meier's Pirates ! and I therefore feel, I can related to this issue

Looking forward to your replies..

k1rr3D....

[Joe Forster/STA]

Hi guys,

Just on a side note, I got a bit carried away with my "free software, public algorithms, no patents" agitation... Of course, I was talking about production software, not games.

Joe

[synchro_w]

Originally Posted by RK

u're whining cos u have to put the disk in every time?? is it the same for dvd's?? videos?? u dont buy em cos u'd have to put the disk/tape in every time u wanted to watch it??

yes, some ppl have had problems with starforce, but most of those probs have now been sorted afaik, but I havent had a single prob using a starforce protected game on any of my pc's!!

tbh I think its good they copy protect the games!! just take a look at TRD2 - cant say I've seen an image anywhere for it, and its been out about a year now!!

i can't believe u r saying this.

firstly, my pc is incredibly noisy. when i say noisy i mean, don't bother buying a good set of speakers for your pc cos the background noise is so bad. thus, i keep my pc box under the desk well hidden so that the noise is, at the very least, reduced. thus, it is damn awkward for me to swap cds/dvds when wanting to play a game.

but that's not my main point.

secondly, 'some ppl have problems with starforce'??? are u joking? 'gangland' - when i click on the desktop shortcut - takes from 4-10 minutes 'checking' the cd. and even after this time it does not check it successfully and i have to start again. once it took 3 attempts for me to get gangland running. overall, 18 minutes to start a game. u think that is a small problem?
and not only gangland. chaos theory gives me the same problem. i usually play a game to completion. gangland and CT i have not bothered. would you? starforce protected games force me to wait this amount of time just to PLAY a game. this is most definitely wrong. if it puts a gamer off playing then it is NOT GOOD FOR GAMERS.

thirdly, i don't understand why you are championing this kinda protection? does it make you feel superior to have paid for your game? do you think , 'i am a better person than those non paying gamers? they are scum. i am better than them. i am just better'. it doesn't make any sense that you should have this personal view. how do you benefit? it proly just means you have more money than ppl who don't buy them. so you are superior cos you have more money?
if i have friends who play a torrented version of a game i don't think to myself, 'they are scum.. i will never speak to them again. i thought they were ok ppl'.
i buy games cos i can. it doesn't make me feel superior to do that. i just do.

ok, i undertsand what could happen to the pc games industry if it turned out the 'way of the amiga' but why would u or anybody else have such an avid dislike of non paying gamers? i have played torrented games, decided i liked them then bought them. would u prefer it if non paying gamers were banned from enjoying games altogether? then you could feel superior to them totally.
the reason i dl'd a game? a recent example would be ufo:aftershock. i bought that game, and am now having a nightmare running it. so, i am returning it even tho i like the game. why? cos of stareforce protection. i refuse to pay money for a game i have to wait 20 minutes to play. without a nodvd crack starforce protected games are not worth bothering with. by the time the game starts i have lost interest.

so, in conclusion, i will prolly be forced to download a game to play it because the copy protection stops me from doing so.
and this is a good thing?
<actually, i'll prolly wait till i can afford to buy a better dvd drive but still...>

ps, sorry for this post's length.
<EDIT: a better and more easy way to enforce would be a serial key that has to be confirmed online.. like BF1942. i have never known of anybody using an illegal copy of BF1942 online.. if the key is illegal then u just don't play -obv for online gaming only>
das

[TippeX]

Originally Posted by k1rr3d

The point Im trying to make is as follows: It is the MASS PRODUCTION of pirated games that cause the most damage to game sales and those involved in mass production are largely unaffected by copy protection, they probably employ a number of crackers on a full-time basis.

actually, they probably just buy access to the warez groups servers and dl from there, so they dont 'employ' crackers per se. Thats the 'bad part' of the scene, where corrupt people try and make money. most copy protection is based on the concept of deterring 'casual copying' ie: people at home, people who arent so pc savvy, not industrial pirates, and the companies realise that..

[Joe Forster/STA]

...and this is typical for how things are done on this planet at this moment. Just like in politics and economy, you can't mess with the few big fish so you f*ck the lots of small fish instead. What a great solution!

[Viper666]

Originally Posted by JoyBoy

Spoken like a champ. You have to pretty desperate to open up your box and pull cables out of holes in order to play a game. Anyways, I guess D-Day is protected with Starforce which is why there is not a proper crack for it.

Actually, disabling IDE channels in the BIOS seems to work just as well, at least it did on Dead To Rights. It sucks, but it's better than unplugging cables or keeping the original disc in the drive. I file those away in the closet and forget about them.

[synchro_w]

Originally Posted by Joe Forster/STA

...and this is typical for how things are done on this planet at this moment. Just like in politics and economy, you can't mess with the few big fish so you f*ck the lots of small fish instead. What a great solution!

yes. i totally agree. it is the guys who masss produce copied games that are the real problem [not that i would ever ever ever buy a forged game - but how could u tell?] but i don't think i know of anybody who mass produces pirated games. i'm sure there must be for those ppl w/o broadband who cannot dl.
i always thought it was movie copies that are forged...what do they say in those pretrailer messages?

"buying copies of movies is hurting the movie industry and directly supporting terrorism"
which effectively means those 'fat cat' producers and corporations have to get by with only 5 mansions with swimming pools and only 7 mistresses instead of the obligatory 9.
and, of course, all governments are now using the 'in support of terrorism' arguement to deprive us of al sorts of civil rights... the police can now kick in your door with 'reasonable suspicion'...

kinda reminds me of late 1930s germany.
still, as long as ppl refuse to do precisely what they are told and don't do what IS best for them [i live in england.. the ultimate nanny state]...

paranoia, cha-cha-chaah

[synchro_w]

erm.. i can't help thinking that this is all pointless anyways.
a dev designs a game, tries to sell it but onnly sells a certain number of copies cos of <a> mass piracy or <b> ppl dling the game.
they don't make as much money and what happens? they take a cut in their pay? the publishers take a cut? somebody must make do with only £120k pa instead of £160k?
the game won't be less well built but publishers MAY force devs to rush a release date so less time for tweaking bugs etc.
but..
what if there were no pirates? no bit torrenting?
sales of games would be huge and some business exec somewhere would say... there's a lot of money in this but we COULD get more money out of it IF we cut this or that back, increased price of game..

it WILL MAKE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER.

whether games sell massively w/o problem or whether there are pirates, whether it is thru lack of profit or because of a massive massive profit from sales of games. some guy in a business suit comes along and says, "we are here to make money"
and, sadly, games aren't really about that.
of course, the games devs, those geniuses, need to live, but when it comes down to purely profit only then i am really glad that the financier types get hacked off that they can't make more money out of the games market.
it is good that some ppl download games.

the console market is horrific for game play. hordes of awful bland bland games with little depth. ok, maybe a tiny %age have novelty but it is a rare thing. if pc games become treated like console games then god help us all!
games like Combat Mission1,2 and AK; Hearts of Iron1 and 2;Deus Ex [not 2.. it was ...er.. not good]; Thief1, 2 [poss 3]; B&W 1 and 2; Battlefield1942 MOD forgotten hope [not bf42 itself.. too arcadey];HL 1 [and just about 2];and many others.
keep games non profit , i say.

but i realise i'm in a minority.

das

<EDIT: sorry, i thought this was another thread but i screwed up.. gulp :¬{[>

[DABhand]

Keep games non-profit?


Thats probably one of the silliest things ive heard, if a company doesnt make profit on a game, they wont do any games.


Thats like saying, Ill work but for no wages.

[Joe Forster/STA]

Actually, developers don't make much profit, if at all, on games they develop. It is the publishers and the shops that make the big money.

Sometimes, the developer gets a fixed amount of money rather than a percentage of the actual profit of selling the game in the shops - in this case, the developer is interested in the game getting pirated because that won't mean less money for them but it will mean more interest in their subsequent games (provided that this game of theirs is a success)!

Also, see how Micro$oft makes money indirectly from piracy: people are using (genuine or pirated) Micro$oft software all over the planet which forces other people use the same software, too, for compatibility reasons as in "How do I read your E-mail, document or run your software if I don't have the same operating system, E-mail software or office software as you do?" Many say that, at least in the past, Micro$oft was also interested in piracy as it helped them with reaching their current domination.

(Sorry, as usual, I went the "side note" way again... )

[DABhand]

I shoulda said Publisher not company as developers are given a lump sum initially and then royalties.

[synchro_w]

well.... i did say i was in a minority.
i kinda meant tho that money does take over.