A real solution to the StarF**k virus for everyone.

[dajunka]

Give this a read it's worth it.


http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000477025364/

[Grumpy]

@dajunka
Nice find! Thanks, Its nice to know we are not alone.

[SPQR300]

I have an idea how to make cracking Splinter Cell3: Chaos Theory a lot easier. On www.direct2drive.com you can download the game for 50$. But this version has a modified Starforce3. You obviously cannot download the whole DVD with all it's hardware protections and physical structure. And u can even mount this version, since u download it to your harddrive. On other forums ppl even confirm that this version HAS a different, much milder starforce version, without serious DVD checking, only online validation system(just like Steam).The only problem is the hardware-code checking and issues on cd-keys.
Even tough this D2D service is only avaible in North-America, I think this could be the key to crack the game at last. Tricking that validating system shouldn't be so hard - Half Life 2's Steam was quite easily bypassed -. Game costs 50$ there, but some cracker groups should try my idea I think. Any opinions?

[TippeX]

steam easily bypassed? yeh right (ie: you are talking out of your arse)

[RaziBG]

I could be wrong about all this but here is my point of view.

Yup, the way it's going one day buying a PC game would even more expensive and installation - a nightmare. Sucks hard. This would probably make more and more poeple choose a console instead of a PC. This sucks even harder. This whole thing with protection and piracy is a vicious circle. Like all things it has its start. Back in the old days PC games were made by enthusiasts and without the idea of earing tons of money. Slowly but surely some poeple couldn't have helped noticing there's a lot of potential in the PC games industry, so they said to themselves: 'Hey, let's make a profit out of this.' And it began. Piracy most likely began as a way to prove onesself and without the idea to be in the way of sales. But as human beings and competition being a part of our blood, more and more 'pirates' turned up. The baby gaming industry felt threatend by these acts of 'piracy'. Here is the turning point. Instead of sitting down and thinking it over (or maybe not thinking it over enough) they decided that the solution should be game protection and higher prices. 'Pirates' see this as a challenge and the wheel started rolling. I could describe it as a game of PONG. Instead of making nice offers, publishers choose the hard way.
Example in my home country of Bulgaria: yup, piracy heaven there, accoridng to many people. True, in a way. But let's think why this is happening. People with a monthly salory of around 200 euro simply CAN'T afford to buy legal software. Let's take Windows as a subject. Instead of lowering prices a lot and thus gaining customers and some profit, the piracy hunters keep prices high and thus making poeple turn to warez and, obviously, depriving from even the little money they could have earned. In fact i DO know people who would buy 1 or 2 pieces of software either because they would like to support the deserving developers or simply to know they have at least 1 piece of legal software. In a place like this a legal copy is somewhat prestige BUT only if the prices were acceptable.
Piracy will exist as long as there's something to crack (pirateize?). Companies are trying to STOP piracy instead of trying to decrease its effect. That's the mistake. The harder you strike, the angrier your opponent will get and the harder he would try to strike back. Human nature.

Software developers and publishers DO deserve support and NOT capitalists. Today's such companies are more like capitalists than developers and publishers.

[Joe Forster/STA]

By the way,

I talked about this digital piracy stuff with my 60+ year old mom recently and she told me that, when Guttenberg invented printing, lots of people went broke because they were making a living out of copying codexes manually. With the invention of printing stuff in as many copies as needed, their work became completely redundant. (Unless you want real facsimiles, that is, but let's stick to the normal customers instead.) And, you can bet, that there were lots of copies that we would now call "bootlegs" or "pirated copies" back then, too, only there were no money-hungry monopolies and governments yet to make laws against this because the technology was too new.

She said that new technologies have changed and will change the attitude of society to acquiring/duplicating stuff. It's not a question, only a matter of time.

Joe

[chaosmaster]

But at your example the gutenberg technology was made, to make write and sale a book easier! Every book was written by hand and so there could only be sold some copies of the work of an author! But the publishers of games only think to protect their games against copy pirates, but with starforce it doesn't only protect the game to be copied, it also can make your system instable and that's not the reason, copy protections were inventet!

[SuspiciousJedi]

Hello everyone, I joined just to be able to discuss this.

First point to make here is that Starforce or for that matter any other copy protection is not initially part of the product it is protecting because it is being added by publisher.

Second point is that the law has precedence over EULA. Or at least it should have. In other words, some company from USA shouldn't have the right to revoke Hungarian (French, German, British, ...) right to make one backup copy for personal use guaranteed by their local law.

Moreover, I am really sick of that "no reliability" bull. Lets try simple analogy. Computer = car, software = car driver. What if taxi driver presented you with such "no reliability" EULA? Would you click on "yes"?

Originally Posted by DABhand

As burning you mean with Alcohol I guess, I have blindwrite and nero and ive yet to have the same problem as you said.

Who are they to judge whether I can use Alcohol or whether I should use Nero instead? I believe they don't have that right.

Originally Posted by DABhand

... the protection is part of the game which you install.

There is no doubt about that, but where is that darn thing identified as being part of it?

Originally Posted by DABhand

All protections have been done the same way from securom, to ProtectCD etc.

First of all, starforce is not a software, it is a combination of drivers and the software it protects.

As such, it is invasive and by any means TOO MUCH invasive thing to have on your computer. Why?

Alcohol 120%, Daemon tools and any other virtual drive applications as well as Soft-Ice, Regmon, Filemon are legitimate software tools whatever you may think about them and people who use them. No one has the right from stopping me to use them on daily basis and to have images of this and that what I otherwise own in my virtual CDs.

Examples:

#1 - I want to listen to a CD while I play the game, I can't because I must put the game CD inside even though it is not really needed. I make virtual game CD of my original and put it in virtual drive and it doesn't work. I make virtual music CD of my music CD and put it in the virtual drive leaving the original game CD in physical drive and it doesn't work because either way it gets blocked by Starforce. I could rip audio CD to mp3 and play it from WinAMP but I am an audio purist and I don't like listening to mp3s. It is my constitutional right to differ from the others.

#2 - I want to play a DVD movie to a family member via my second sound card and the TV out while I am playing but that is not possible with Starforce too.

#3 - I want to use Soft-Ice debugger to debug my own software or the driver I am writting for my company. Now what?

#4 - I want to monitor application setup so I can repackage it because 16 bit setup refuses to run on 64-bit Windows XP. I need registry/file monitoring. Now what?

Not only it is always there, it also doesn't uninstall after the game is uninstalled. You have to remove it manually. For manual removal you have to be aware that it has been installed in the first place. It is even less legitimate than spyware/adware junk that comes with some shareware applications because even that junk shows separate EULA and some of it even allow simple uninstallation from Add/Remove programs in Control Panel.

About the invasive part, the protection intercepts vital system calls to be able to create controlled environment in which the game can be run securely (trusted computing anyone?). What is wrong with that?

Well for one, it is not active only when the game is running so in my view it is a spyware. It can as well contain code to snoop on my network traffic and my keyboard and to disclose that to third parties and there is no way to check whether it does it or not because by protecting the game the way it does (on the kernel level) it protects itself from analysis too. And AFAIK the protection code is not available for public scrutiny.

So there you are, running a black box in your system which may do anything -- spy on you, restrict your other perfectly legal activities, even delete your files or do a security wipe of your hard drive on a low level or even intentionaly fry a piece of hardware because it has higher than admin priviledges (it runs in kernel mode!), and all that without you even knowing it is installed?!?

Originally Posted by DABhand

And again, no matter what you say, game protections are part of a game it comes packaged with it, no if's or but's or maybe's, it has been and always will be.

You know, even simple things like deodorants or detergents or food have their ingredients listed because certain people are alergic to some of them and those people avoid buying it because it could harm them. Same logic can be applied here so I am afraid your point is not valid here.

[TippeX]

Originally Posted by SuspiciousJedi

Examples:

#1 - I want to listen to a CD while I play the game, I can't because I must put the game CD inside even though it is not really needed. I make virtual game CD of my original and put it in virtual drive and it doesn't work. I make virtual music CD of my music CD and put it in the virtual drive leaving the original game CD in physical drive and it doesn't work because either way it gets blocked by Starforce. I could rip audio CD to mp3 and play it from WinAMP but I am an audio purist and I don't like listening to mp3s. It is my constitutional right to differ from the others.

>> blocked by starforce? since when did starforce interfere with audio disks?

#2 - I want to play a DVD movie to a family member via my second sound card and the TV out while I am playing but that is not possible with Starforce too.

>> since when did starforce protect dvd's (movies that is)

#3 - I want to use Soft-Ice debugger to debug my own software or the driver I am writting for my company. Now what?

>> simple, you reboot and dont load softice

#4 - I want to monitor application setup so I can repackage it because 16 bit setup refuses to run on 64-bit Windows XP. I need registry/file monitoring. Now what?

>> regmon/filemon from sys internals?

Well for one, it is not active only when the game is running so in my view it is a spyware. It can as well contain code to snoop on my network traffic and my keyboard and to disclose that to third parties and there is no way to check whether it does it or not because by protecting the game the way it does (on the kernel level) it protects itself from analysis too. And AFAIK the protection code is not available for public scrutiny.

>> again the network traffic CAN be monitored, theres tons of network analysys programs out there, that can capture packets etc

You know, even simple things like deodorants or detergents or food have their ingredients listed because certain people are alergic to some of them and those people avoid buying it because it could harm them. Same logic can be applied here so I am afraid your point is not valid here.

theres logic, and then theres paranoia, and then theres jumping to conclusions without first researching the topic you're discussing, which category do you belong in?

[omni555]

Game publishers/etc DO have the right to expect those playing their game to purchase a legal copy and NOT pirate it. There have been reasons put forth (like games being priced out of the reach of many people and so on) that attempt to justify piracy, but those are MOSTLY excuses.

I DO agree that games are priced WAY too high considering what you GET in many cases - one or more CD's with (usually) VERY buggy code. And the profits mostly end up NOT in the hands of those who worked so hard to CREATE the game...

But I digress... Copy protection as it is being developed now SUCKS!!! People KNOW that they should not pirate games and other software, but those who are DETERMINED to get their games/software at a five-finger-discount are GOING to find a way REGARDLESS how "difficult" it is made.

Copy protection schemes like Starforce and Valve's Steam activation are NOT going to prevent - or even SLOW DOWN - piracy. ...Well, maybe slow down for a short time, until the hackers figure out one of the many ways AROUND the CP scheme(s)!!!

In essence, adding all this CP crap to games is only accomplishing the following:

1) It is adding to the prices of the software. (Come on!!! You didn't think that CP schemes just magically appeared FREE to the software companies, did you?!!!)

2) It adds an extra area where bugs can creep into an already buggy piece of software. (Have you EVER seen a piece of software without ANY bugs in it???)

3) It adds an "extreme annoyance" factor to the HONEST and LEGITIMATE owners of the software!!!

4)... There are probably many more points that could be added here, but I don't feel inclined to waste more of my time itemizing them right now.

I am probably both one of the BIGGEST supporters of the computer gaming industry and one of the most IRRITATED!!! I currently have IN MY POSSESSION on original disks/cd's/dvd's and with original manuals and boxes over $20,000.00 worth of computer games. ...Yes, you read that RIGHT!!! Over TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS US!!! And that doesn't include games that, over the past years, I have lost, given to friends and relatives, or just donated to some charitable organization.

I ALSO am a HUGE proponent of software like Alcohol, Virtual Drive, and so on. While I have literally MANY HUNDREDS of disks, cd's and dvd's, it would be a MAJOR PAIN IN THE <TUSH> if I had to keep looking for and changing the media every time I wanted to play a different game!!! In fact, I recently purchased a 300 GB HD which is dedicated to NOTHING BUT virtual disk files so that at the MOST all I have to do now is click/mount a virtual CD file to play any game I want.

Yeah, probably a bit extreme, and certainly a little costly, but the convenience is WORTH it!!! In fact, one game that I DEARLY wanted to try was HL2, but due to the type of hoops that Valve is making its customers jump thru JUST TO INSTALL the game - let alone PLAY it!!! - I have vowed that until a no-cd crack is developed such that I can install the game and play it WITHOUT having to connect online, I will fore-go the pleasure of playing that game. And just to point out that it is NOT an issue of not wanting to pay for the game, a friend of mine offered to lend me HIS copy (along with his Steam account so that I could install/play it), but I told him that I wasn't interested!

I work HARD to squeeze EVERY BYTE of power from my computer, and anything that threatens to drain even ONE of those precious bytes is going to meet with my STRONG opposition.

Bottom line, software producers NEED our support to continue to produce the stuff that we like to play on our computers, and so we should SUPPORT them financially by BUYING their games rather than pirating them. BUT when situations come up like Starforce and Steam Activation, I propose a TOTAL BOYCOTT of those companies until they REALIZE that the wrath of HONEST CONSUMERS is FAR WORSE than the piddling losses they will suffer IN ANY CASE at the hands of pirates who would not pay for the software under ANY circumstances!

[SuspiciousJedi]

Originally Posted by TippeX

blocked by starforce? since when did starforce interfere with audio disks?

Originally Posted by TippeX

since when did starforce protect dvd's (movies that is)

It does not but you can't have another disk except the game disk in the drive while you play, or can you?

Originally Posted by TippeX

simple, you reboot and dont load softice

And that was your answer to this:

Originally Posted by SuspiciousJedi

#3 - I want to use Soft-Ice debugger to debug my own software or the driver I am writting for my company. Now what?

I was not asking how to play a game, I was asking what should I do if I am a developer? How to debug when those drivers that block debuggers are installed? I am wondering are you using your reading abilities at all?

Originally Posted by TippeX

regmon/filemon from sys internals?

Right, those two.

Originally Posted by TippeX

again the network traffic CAN be monitored, theres tons of network analysys programs out there, that can capture packets etc

You do not understand this obviously. Since the Starforce is comprised of not less than 4 kernel drivers they can send packets directly without those ever being seen by firewall or network analysis programs. What is even worse, hardware firewalls included in routers are not designed to prevent outgoing communication so they cannot stop Starforce from sending date without you knowing it either.

Originally Posted by TippeX

theres logic, and then theres paranoia, and then theres jumping to conclusions without first researching the topic you're discussing, which category do you belong in?

Logic is simple -- I do not wish anything that may affect the functionality of my whole computer or it's parts in uncontrollable manner to install without my consent and permission. Moreover, I do not wish to buy anything that doesn't list it's full requirements on the box. There is no valid argument against this. Period.

I am certainly not jumping to conclusion because I have seen how this stealth injection technology works before Starforce has been made. There is a sample source code floating around and even some tools from sysinternals use some of those techniques now used against them.

One example is regmon which monitors registry access by hooking to registry APIs. Starforce not only hooks vital system APIs but it goes even further to hide itself so you don't even see it is doing it.

The method used for patching into the OS kernel can be seen as a security breach because it is not using any Microsoft approved means of interacting and hooking into the system therefore your system may not work as intended after installing it. Having such a thing in your system could void your support with Microsoft -- those drivers aren't even certified by Microsoft meaning they can cause you all sorts of trouble.

Now, could you possibly explain this to me:

What is the point of all hardware manufacturers going through the trouble of obtaining WHQL cetrification from Microsoft to ensure stability and normal functioning of your dearly paid system when a stinking game can install unsigned drivers from the third party without your consent, whose interaction with the OS does not adhere to specifications set by OS manufacturer, and can endanger all your hardware/software/data just by sitting there and intercepting vital system functions let alone doing anything?!?

I suggest you to do some research on the subject instead of trusting or doubting my judgement or sanity. As someone pointed earlier check this, and don't forget to read about all the technologies involved (bottom of the page) because Starforce does include many of them.

[TippeX]

[QUOTE=SuspiciousJedi]It does not but you can't have another disk except the game disk in the drive while you play, or can you?

>> nope, but if the game wants you to have the cd/dvd in the drive then you have little or no choice do you, if you want to play it legally

I was not asking how to play a game, I was asking what should I do if I am a developer? How to debug when those drivers that block debuggers are installed? I am wondering are you using your reading abilities at all?

>> debugging those drivers would infringe the 'no reversing' poilicy in the eula wouldnt it, which would be illegal, however if you were a decent developer then you would know how to hide your debugger from the detections used and then debug it if you wanted to

You do not understand this obviously. Since the Starforce is comprised of not less than 4 kernel drivers they can send packets directly without those ever being seen by firewall or network analysis programs. What is even worse, hardware firewalls included in routers are not designed to prevent outgoing communication so they cannot stop Starforce from sending date without you knowing it either.

i am VERY framiliar with starforce and its drivers, NONE of those drivers have inet functionality and they can NOT send stuff out without accessing the network drivers, which should in turn be linked to the firewall (software), it just cant magically make a packet and send it, it has to interface to the ndis driver layer at the very least

i agree with your view though about the stability of your computer being hindered by the starforce 'layer', and yes starforce use some 'non standard' methods of hooking system api's, whats worse is that the last time i checked these hooks were global and not process based which can definately lead to some 'issues', regarding the whql issue, i think the whql is optional and you have to pay for it, and chances are the starforce people know it will fail on some tests, so paying for the whql is pointless from their view

[SuspiciousJedi]

Originally Posted by TippeX

nope, but if the game wants you to have the cd/dvd in the drive then you have little or no choice do you, if you want to play it legally

If I bought the game why it would be illegal to play it without the CD in the drive? Do you understand how the law works? Basic principle of law and justice says that everyone is innocent until (or unless) proven otherwise.

What this whole game copy protection scam and not just Starforce does is twisting the way the law and justice usually works into completely OPPOSITE scheme -- you are guilty unless you can prove you are innocent by having the CD in the drive. That is rediculous.

Originally Posted by TippeX

debugging those drivers would infringe the 'no reversing' poilicy in the eula wouldnt it, which would be illegal, however if you were a decent developer then you would know how to hide your debugger from the detections used and then debug it if you wanted to

You got me wrong again -- I do not want to debug their drivers, I want to be able to debug apps and drivers I wrote and I can't while Starforce is installed because it prevents any kind of debugging.

Originally Posted by TippeX

i am VERY framiliar with starforce and its drivers, NONE of those drivers have inet functionality and they can NOT send stuff out without accessing the network drivers, which should in turn be linked to the firewall (software), it just cant magically make a packet and send it, it has to interface to the ndis driver layer at the very least

Maybe they don't have it YET, maybe it has to interface so what?

In my view the main problem is that Starforce has unsupervised access to whole physical memory space because it is a kernel driver running in ring0. That means it could write into firewall memory space. That means it could also patch into other drivers. That means it could snoop and/or steal sensitive data such as credit-card numbers from your RAM and disclose it to the third party. It could open so much hated popup windows and waste your bandwidth on downloading targeted ads without you having any way of stopping it.

I am not saying it is doing it right now, just that it is possible and if we allow this we can expect to see those scenarios in the near future. There are already plans to display ads in games while you play, google for it.

What we have here is a double standard -- publishers do not trust their customers treating them as thieves until proven otherwise and at the same time they expect from customers to cast aside all doubts about publisher's "honest" intentions meaning that we should treat them as honest until someone proves otherwise. Shouldn't law be equally applied to everyone?

Originally Posted by TippeX

whats worse is that the last time i checked these hooks were global and not process based which can definately lead to some 'issues',

Hooks must be global so it can hide itself. My issue list sorted by order of importance is:

- privacy
- stability
- performance

Second and third options can be tuned over time but IMO they should not be our primary concern. People give up on privacy and control over their own stuff too easily when they should fight for all they are worth for.

Originally Posted by TippeX

regarding the whql issue, i think the whql is optional and you have to pay for it, and chances are the starforce people know it will fail on some tests, so paying for the whql is pointless from their view

WHQL is optional but products using non-certified drivers cannot get "Designed for Windows" logo. Consider this scenario:

You go out and buy video card. Being a product which has passed WHQL certification it rightfully carries "Designed for Windows" logo because it comes with signed drivers. In the package you also get a bundled game or a demo protected with Starforce.

Real problem here is that by including unsigned Starforce drivers in the bundle, video card OEM does not qualify for that "Designed for Windows" logo anymore. You have based your buying decisions upon logo existance so both the OEM and you are screwed.

[TippeX]

Originally Posted by SuspiciousJedi

If I bought the game why it would be illegal to play it without the CD in the drive? Do you understand how the law works? Basic principle of law and justice says that everyone is innocent until (or unless) proven otherwise.

>> unless you are american ;p and yep i understand how the law works, far too well

What this whole game copy protection scam and not just Starforce does is twisting the way the law and justice usually works into completely OPPOSITE scheme -- you are guilty unless you can prove you are innocent by having the CD in the drive. That is rediculous.

>> agreed, but short of online authentication the only 'sure' way they know you have the game is to 'force' you to have the cd/dvd rom in the drive

You got me wrong again -- I do not want to debug their drivers, I want to be able to debug apps and drivers I wrote and I can't while Starforce is installed because it prevents any kind of debugging.

>> hmm just tested that and you appear to be wrong i had no problems loading softice with the starforce drivers loaded, it only ****s up when you load a starforce game and the drivers then get activated

Maybe they don't have it YET, maybe it has to interface so what?

In my view the main problem is that Starforce has unsupervised access to whole physical memory space because it is a kernel driver running in ring0. That means it could write into firewall memory space. That means it could also patch into other drivers. That means it could snoop and/or steal sensitive data such as credit-card numbers from your RAM and disclose it to the third party. It could open so much hated popup windows and waste your bandwidth on downloading targeted ads without you having any way of stopping it.

I am not saying it is doing it right now, just that it is possible and if we allow this we can expect to see those scenarios in the near future. There are already plans to display ads in games while you play, google for it.

>> yep anythings possible agreed, but its probably best to wait for it to happen and then deal with it as opposed to trying a pre emtive move

What we have here is a double standard -- publishers do not trust their customers treating them as thieves until proven otherwise and at the same time they expect from customers to cast aside all doubts about publisher's "honest" intentions meaning that we should treat them as honest until someone proves otherwise. Shouldn't law be equally applied to everyone?

>> the law works for the industry, not the end user, that much can be seen from how many new laws have been introduced

Hooks must be global so it can hide itself. My issue list sorted by order of importance is:

- privacy
- stability
- performance

Second and third options can be tuned over time but IMO they should not be our primary concern. People give up on privacy and control over their own stuff too easily when they should fight for all they are worth for.



WHQL is optional but products using non-certified drivers cannot get "Designed for Windows" logo. Consider this scenario:

You go out and buy video card. Being a product which has passed WHQL certification it rightfully carries "Designed for Windows" logo because it comes with signed drivers. In the package you also get a bundled game or a demo protected with Starforce.

Real problem here is that by including unsigned Starforce drivers in the bundle, video card OEM does not qualify for that "Designed for Windows" logo anymore. You have based your buying decisions upon logo existance so both the OEM and you are screwed.

yep cavat emptor aint it

[ric_hornet]

You can count on me in boycotting SF protection as well!
I only SF protected game that I bought and own is Silent Hunter III, which I was expecting for a very long time. But I will NOT buy SF protected games anymore even if it's an highly anticipated release like Silent Hunter III.