I think B uyers need more Rights

[[email protected]]

Poll I am wishing to send a petition to make manufactures produce these NO-CD/DVD options.. Help out to secure the life of our software..



I want to post this in the act to Make it more available to the customer to have NO-CD and NO-DVD policies. I would like to see manufacturers allow Registered users the Ease to get certified Cracks to allow them to play the PC Games without the CD-ROM instead of these Cracks that are often times done by partans that posibly shouldn't be.

Basically the buyer should have these Cracks maybe sent to them for there specific version of any game they have purchased and can prove somehow, and only available upon registered copies.


What you think Should the customer be able to do this, I need your help. Do

you think that this is Resonable and the responcibility of the manufacturer,

or do you like it the way it is now

[!HaGaR!]

Well, what do you think how fast this "specific" nocd/dvd will make their way to the p2p networks?

In my opinion it´s the damn good right of the companies to protect their products. Well, sure, I am interested in playing backups as well because to keep my originals safe, but your above mentioned idea will explode the amount of pirated warez.

Have a look at this forum - warezkiddies are all around. Massive bans the last few days because of key requests, trouble with pirated warez and so on.

Maybe a bit paranoid... Bought a new car last week. Phoned the dealer right after the car has been delivered. I asked him, where the other car is.
He answered: "The other car?". "Well, yes...I can´t use the first one, because I want it to stay safe in my garage..."

Hm, admins, better close this thread. Could end up in flame war...

!HaGaR!

[Big Country]

That just makes no sence at all. Why would they make a game require the CD/DVD if they are just supposed to send you a no-CD/DVD crack???? The whole purpose of requiring the original CD/DVD to play the game is to keep people from making copies and giving them to friends.

They would be out of business in a week.

[Grumpy]

Yes it does sound a bit silly!
@Hagar
I do like the car example tho.

[X-Ploit]

you petition would double warez as one person would just put his crack out and everyone would have it.... it dosnt really bother me what protection people have as it will be cracked sooner or later... so it dont really matter.... but you can understand why people are trying to copy right there games... ill admit i have cracked games... but... i only have them for a short amount of tiem... if there good i buy them and play them if they are **** i finnish them and delete them.... i know its bad but meh... i have payed for enough games to have a cracked one every now and then.....

[Joe Forster/STA]

Okay, so may I add my idea, too?

As far as I remember, there was a little program for Tagés-protected titles that injected the Tagés data into a plain CD image that anyone could create from an original CD with an ordinary CD imager software.

Now, how about the following?
- Buy the game.
- Register the game at the manufacturer. You get a URL from which you can download a small software dedicated to your game CD.
- Create an image of the CD with Nero, Alcohol 120%, CloneCD, CDRWin, whatever.
- Run that small software that injects the encrypted CD identification into the image you.
- Mount or burn the image with Nero, Alcohol 120%, CloneCD, CDRWin, Daemon Tools, whatever.

There you have another copy of your game that is, by definition, another original CD that is dedicated to you! Some more ideas:
- Want another backup copy? Burn the image again.
- Don't want to fiddle with a physical media? Mount the image, don't burn it.
- Wanna crack the protection? The CD identification is encrypted so good luck!
- Wanna distribute your backup copy? No problemo, but you'll get a nice kick in your @ss from the game manufacturer/publisher, as, based on the CD identification and your registration, the image contents can be traced back to you.

Joe

[DABhand]

Not all burners can burn all methods of protection.

And it wont be a good idea, since someone could send that little file out into the world.

Unless they have realtime serial injection, where you go online to register your serial and then gives you some sorta thing as you said but with your own serial injected into the image.

[!HaGaR!]

@Grumpy - Maybe I should have asked the dealer to build me my own NoCarKey-Patch - In order to get the "copy" of my car somewhere in the s2s-networks (street-2-street ;-D)...

[Joe Forster/STA]

Hi DABhand,

I must've been hard to understand because I was writing exactly about this small injector software carrying a serial of your (first) original CD. if you spread the injector or the injected CD image, well, the game publisher will trace it back to you.

As for problems with burning that image, the creator of the copy protection could make a recommendation on what burning software, CD/DVD drive and CD/DVD media should be used. (Perhaps, create a small burner software that knows CDRWin's BIN+CUE, CloneCD's BIN+CUE+CCD and Alcohol's MDS+MDF formats. Dunno what to do about DVD's, though, as there's no low-level format for them, only good old ISO, right?)

Joe

[DABhand]

It was reply to someone before you, I seen you had the same idea.

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by Joe Forster/STA

Okay, so may I add my idea, too?

As far as I remember, there was a little program for Tagés-protected titles that injected the Tagés data into a plain CD image that anyone could create from an original CD with an ordinary CD imager software.

Now, how about the following?
- Buy the game.
- Register the game at the manufacturer. You get a URL from which you can download a small software dedicated to your game CD.
- Create an image of the CD with Nero, Alcohol 120%, CloneCD, CDRWin, whatever.
- Run that small software that injects the encrypted CD identification into the image you.
- Mount or burn the image with Nero, Alcohol 120%, CloneCD, CDRWin, Daemon Tools, whatever.

There you have another copy of your game that is, by definition, another original CD that is dedicated to you! Some more ideas:
- Want another backup copy? Burn the image again.
- Don't want to fiddle with a physical media? Mount the image, don't burn it.
- Wanna crack the protection? The CD identification is encrypted so good luck!
- Wanna distribute your backup copy? No problemo, but you'll get a nice kick in your @ss from the game manufacturer/publisher, as, based on the CD identification and your registration, the image contents can be traced back to you.

Joe

This Guy has teh Idea here. and had the same Very similar Idea I had. Every CD you buy and install has a unuiqe ID to it, and if not Uniuqe then not many of the Same ID is available. This security if registered would allow the buyer {you and me alike] do recieve this function while registering and quite posibly automatically. To do it in this Manor wouldn't allow P2P networks to Share it in anyway. Already most the ID's are Generated by Hardware configuration and or what is installed. I wonder if you kids have actually Gone off searching for the Keys used to unlock the installations. In the old days this was EASY. you can't posibly think that there isn't at all any for of the Key on the disk but a Mathmatical Equation it uses. Encryption is Great, and can be used in more convienant ways then it is now..

With that Idea said how are you to Share over P2P networks if this is a Proccedure that the End-user can't perform. Senerio here in steps: 1. to install 2. be offered a Registration method 3. after registration be offered the oportunity to install this function {carried out buy automated install with no left over temp files} How hard is that. Look at all the websites that install Spyware and other annoying things without you knowing it happened. They already have the Technology why not use it, especially to assist the customer in protecting there purchases.

Hell to create a image of any software is already available and able to use any burning software and Burner. You all know that there are Securities in CD's now, but did you know there are Easy Ways around it. Their is always a executable available with any encryption, and allows the Chepaest of burners to perform the task Easy as long as you find out the encryption method.

[Joe Forster/STA]

Mind you guys, I already found out (some of) the weaknesses of my "idea":

Would you have to register yourself with your personal details (name, street address etc.)? If so, you can go to the personal data protection ombudsman and tell him that some company wants to collect your personal data for "no apparent reason"!

Still, you can give fake personal data and then there's no one to trace the spread image back to. Or, if that special injector software arrives at you via post - so your personal data _must_ be correct - then you can give your neighbor's name or your work place address or some post box address that is not very related to your person. Furthermore, the latter solution, that includes postal delivery, is expensive. Although, if you ask me, being able to back up your disks for the shipping costs of a package and the CD in it, well, a nice bargain...

Game companies always stress that they're trying to suppress "casual warezers" with copy protections. This means, they don't want to let you make a copy of your game for your neighbors, friends, close relatives etc. if you did so, that wouldn't be publishing your personated backups - made by imaging the original, injecting your "serial" into the image, and then burning it back onto CD/DVD - and the game company would never find out that you did so. So, my idea "helps" casual warezers...

(Side note: As I pointed out in a previous thread, mass piracy - including manufacturing and selling extreme amounts of pirated games - doesn't give a f*ck about all this as they will always manage to break any kind of copy protection, sooner or later, the easy or the hard way...)

Joe

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by Joe Forster/STA

Mind you guys, I already found out (some of) the weaknesses of my "idea":

Would you have to register yourself with your personal details (name, street address etc.)? If so, you can go to the personal data protection ombudsman and tell him that some company wants to collect your personal data for "no apparent reason"!

Still, you can give fake personal data and then there's no one to trace the spread image back to. Or, if that special injector software arrives at you via post - so your personal data _must_ be correct - then you can give your neighbor's name or your work place address or some post box address that is not very related to your person. Furthermore, the latter solution, that includes postal delivery, is expensive. Although, if you ask me, being able to back up your disks for the shipping costs of a package and the CD in it, well, a nice bargain...

Game companies always stress that they're trying to suppress "casual warezers" with copy protections. This means, they don't want to let you make a copy of your game for your neighbors, friends, close relatives etc. if you did so, that wouldn't be publishing your personated backups - made by imaging the original, injecting your "serial" into the image, and then burning it back onto CD/DVD - and the game company would never find out that you did so. So, my idea "helps" casual warezers...

(Side note: As I pointed out in a previous thread, mass piracy - including manufacturing and selling extreme amounts of pirated games - doesn't give a f*ck about all this as they will always manage to break any kind of copy protection, sooner or later, the easy or the hard way...)

Joe

My Idea Doesn't at all require personal Data to be Posted. it would only require the math to be right. All games have it anyway. there is a MAthmatical Equation that Desides many registeries and a few other things not much but to have a Equation that works off the CD-Key Versus Hardware ID like Windows XP does, well then you have a Hit. and once again no need to Download as in the Registration Process would have a option to have the NO-CD/DVD installed Automated so that there is no Chance to Pirate. Of Course there is always a pirate out there. but who cares he can only steall your Hardware Profile and even then nothing would work. the reason is because no two Hardwares have the same ID: Simple as that.. so anyway who likes the Idea and who is against it. Kinda funny how it already sounds like many Peer 2 Peer kids their are in here. What does this IDea Piss on you becuase if it does go threw you wouldn't have anymore pirating to do on the Newer game for witch support it.. Ah SO sad....

[Joe Forster/STA]

Hi ez0469,

An inherent problem with your solution is the following...

Now you buy the game, install it on your PC, it gets "activated", meaning that particular copy can be played on and only on your PC. (I'm not sure if you were saying if the installation or the "automatic backup CD" has your hardware identification burnt into it... but it doesn't matter anyway.)

A few months later you upgrade your PC. What do you do now? You gotta contact the game publisher again, to have your installation and/or backup CD (re)activated for your new hardware config. Well, just a bit of a pain in the @ss.

But what if you want to play the game again, say, five years later? You may have replaced all components in your PC by then. Perhaps, there's a very different operating system (new Windows; Linux; whatever) installed so you have to try the game in a virtual machine emulator (with the older Windows installed and some specific hardware config emulated). The game will not run and, even if the game publisher still exists, they won't help you anymore...

So, now you're left with a completely unusable original CD, backup CD and installed game. Even if your game is a retail version, not limited in the time of usage, number of installations etc. The next step? Finding a no-CD patch.

Joe

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by Joe Forster/STA

Hi ez0469,

An inherent problem with your solution is the following...

Now you buy the game, install it on your PC, it gets "activated", meaning that particular copy can be played on and only on your PC. (I'm not sure if you were saying if the installation or the "automatic backup CD" has your hardware identification burnt into it... but it doesn't matter anyway.)

A few months later you upgrade your PC. What do you do now? You gotta contact the game publisher again, to have your installation and/or backup CD (re)activated for your new hardware config. Well, just a bit of a pain in the @ss.

But what if you want to play the game again, say, five years later? You may have replaced all components in your PC by then. Perhaps, there's a very different operating system (new Windows; Linux; whatever) installed so you have to try the game in a virtual machine emulator (with the older Windows installed and some specific hardware config emulated). The game will not run and, even if the game publisher still exists, they won't help you anymore...

So, now you're left with a completely unusable original CD, backup CD and installed game. Even if your game is a retail version, not limited in the time of usage, number of installations etc. The next step? Finding a no-CD patch.

Joe

Your Potential Problem is Creditable For sure. But I am not sure about you people but when I install new hardware anyway I have reformted my PC anyway and would continue to install the software and register again anyway. So that Problem to people that install upgrades well your Stupid for not reinstalling the OS for clean installs with little to troubleshoot if something should go wrong. Yeah Sure, not all people practise this, I know. What is potentially confusing is about why you woul dhave to reinstall the Cracks that are legit. The Comparisons of the Hardware ID's would hold Little if any comparison to the Fix. only to be used while Obtaining the Fix. I believe I stated that thought already. No Big deal if and when it does happen, I am sure that there are ways Around your thought.... You make it out to be a frustrating issue when in the end probably wouldn't be that picky...


Don't you all know that the Current Cracks available are technically not Legal anyway!! This is a Solution to allow them and to not Get busted for using them if for some strange reason the manufacturer comes after you {{{Unlikely but posible}}}....