Starforce Petition!

[DaRipper]

I think you should add Prince of Persia the Two Thrones in the list, I didn't find it there. I've been buying originals since 1997 and only originals. I've Always backed them up and never had any problems with any of them (my originals for C&C: Red Alert are still in their original case, thanks to back-up cds!!). Anyway, I bought a copy of POP3 online cause before you could lay your hands on an original here in Mauritius the game could have been outdated by more than 6 months and illegal copies outspreading in the wild!

The game arrived this week. I installed it ASAP, eager to find out what would happen in this last episode of POP, played the game once without problem, and then came back-up time! And for a sure thing, my once stable machine started to play tricks on me. Sometimes I had to reboot my machine only to GET INTO Windows, let alone use any application. And after the successful boot out of 3, it was more like a 'try and die' game I played to be able to use my PC.

POP3 was the first Starforce protected game I bought, and it will undoubtedly be the last!

Die StarForce, die!!

P.S: If it's not obvious enough, it a vote

P.P.S: we are an army of forks and spikes against swords and canons. But hey! That's how they won the French Revolution. So let's poke our forks into Starforce's belly

@Chaindrive

Apparently, there have been some efforts. As to their testing methods, I don't have a clue. There are two that I know of that have stated they've done lab-type testing:
Mark @ Sysinternals
http://www.sysinternals.com/Forum/fo...3&KW=starforce

13HourR @ N-Guage in the form of a challenge
http://www.n-gage-help.com/modules.p...ewtopic&t=5513

Also. Can I have your permission to submit the Starforce CD image to the Boycott Starforce site? Here is the site's url: http://www.glop.org/starforce/

It would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Thank you to Grumpy as well for this site and forum.

[jbMurdock]

nothing more to say...

[Chaindrive]

Originally Posted by midfingr

@Chaindrive

Apparently, there have been some efforts. As to their testing methods, I don't have a clue. There are two that I know of that have stated they've done lab-type testing:
Mark @ Sysinternals
http://www.sysinternals.com/Forum/fo...3&KW=starforce

13HourR @ N-Guage in the form of a challenge
http://www.n-gage-help.com/modules.p...ewtopic&t=5513

I've just sat and read those threads (well, it's -15 outside!!) and agree with pretty much all that is being said and it's also reminded me of something else - but more of that in a mo...

It seems there are a lot of people who have had bad experiences with Starforce, from slowing down drives to causing actual physical damage and 13HourR is absolutely right to issue his challenge.

Will Starforce take him up on it? I very much doubt it!

While publishers continue to buy their product, why should they? I am absolutely certain that publishers know what they are buying and if they were really worried about Starforce, how quickly do you think they would distance themselves from it (and the potential costs of fighting thousands of claims for damages!)?

As I have said before, like it or not, Starforce does what it is intended to do and until someone can come up with irrefutable, incontrovertible, independent forensic evidence that this product actually damages (or causes to be damaged) computer hardware, then they will continue to use it - and whatever derivatives it may spawn!

What about the publishers themselves? Has anyone got any contacts who can verify if they have done their own testing? If so, what were the results? Can we see them published anywhere?

Also. Can I have your permission to submit the Starforce CD image to the Boycott Starforce site? Here is the site's url: http://www.glop.org/starforce/

Certainly!

It would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

You're welcome.

As I was reading the above threads I remembered something that happened a few months back whilst I was using the Starforce protected software that I mentioned previously.

I had been using the program for a while (not sure how long, maybe 30 - 40 minutes) when the CDR/CDRW drive it was in started to make a very lound "grinding" noise. Needless to say I hit the "Eject" button asap but it wasn't until I had resorted to the old "paper clip in the hole" routine, that I persuaded the drive to give up the fight and open!

On checking the cd, I found that it had been very badly scored on the "read" side and has a furrow around (approx) 50% of its' circumference, about 3mm in from the outer edge. Needless to say, it can no longer be read and is now a coaster! Thankfully, the drive seems to have survived the onslaught and still functions.

Now, it could be absolutely nothing to do with Starforce and it was just unfortunate that the CD got "thrown" but this had never happened before (and I have to say, has not happened since) but it makes you wonder!

One final point before I grab a coffee and brave the cold....

I will always give my support when asked, if I believe in what I am being asked to support but, in order to give that support, I need to be sure that what I am suporting is right.

What I have read (in the main) has been informative, well thought-out, constructive criticism of a product that a) is installed without permission and b) is believed to damage the equipment on which it is installed. (I tend to regard statements such "them pi**ing in their pants", "taking over the world" and comments about "assassination attempts" by the British Government as being at best irrelevant and at worst, damaging to the credibility of the professional image you are trying to present.)

The only thing lacking is evidence - cold, hard evidence.

Get that and you've got yourself a case - and boy, what a case it would be!!

Without it, all you've got is a long hard slog - "pushing treacle (molasses) uphill"!!!

How much would it cost to buy a virgin system, plus software and to get it to an independent Laboratory for testing? (13HourR - maybe you can come up with the answer to that?)

Would it not be possible to arrange some sort of "donation link", where all those who are concerned enough could donate a small amount to pay for it? (The equipment could be given to charity when the testing is finished.)

Let's face it, if you are not buying "Starforce" games now, you should have a few spare coins making holes in your pockets! Put them to good use now because, sooner or later, someone with an awful lot more money and clout is going to say: "Put up or shut up!"

[wildwing]

ggr
i dont get
why to boycot games with sf?
i have 3 games what i bought and they was with sf3
that is scct/corsars 3(russian) and cmr05..
this games works fine,no sf errors or smth
...
looks like u want to boycot games with sf3 cuz U leech this CLONEs from ftp/torrrents ect..and u cant get this game to works ( i mean u cant run or smth so u cant play...)
sorry for my bad english

[Chaindrive]

Originally Posted by wildwing

ggr
i dont get
why to boycot games with sf?
i have 3 games what i bought and they was with sf3
that is scct/corsars 3(russian) and cmr05..
this games works fine,no sf errors or smth
...
looks like u want to boycot games with sf3 cuz U leech this CLONEs from ftp/torrrents ect..and u cant get this game to works ( i mean u cant run or smth so u cant play...)
sorry for my bad english

Hi Wildwing.

I think you've missed the point!

It is quite possible to download copies of many games that are protected by Starforce - copies that work perfectly and do not install undocumented software in the process!

Nobody wants to boycott Starforce because it stops you from playing a game but because of what it does "behind the scenes", without your permission to do so. Also because it reportedly opens the door for Trojans and other malicious code to attack your machine.

When you add that to the fact it prevents you from making a LEGAL backup copy of software you have LEGITIMATELY PURCHASED, then it makes for one nasty piece of coding.

I too have had no problems (so far as I am aware) with Starforce but, from here on in I will not have it anywhere near any of my machines - not until I know for sure what it does, or does not do.

THAT, my friend, is the whole point and to most of us that value the rights and liberties we have fought long and hard to gain, Starforce is a step too far towards restricting those rights and freedoms.

I don't know where you're from but I would guess it is somewhere East of Central Europe? If so, you (more than many of us) should know how precious the rights of freedom and self-determination are. Any step backwards from that position, no matter how seemingly insignificant, is a step too far!

'Nuff Sed!

[Dieselbrad]

Originally Posted by wildwing

ggr
i dont get
why to boycot games with sf?
i have 3 games what i bought and they was with sf3
that is scct/corsars 3(russian) and cmr05..
this games works fine,no sf errors or smth
...
looks like u want to boycot games with sf3 cuz U leech this CLONEs from ftp/torrrents ect..and u cant get this game to works ( i mean u cant run or smth so u cant play...)
sorry for my bad english

The Name of the site is Game COPY World! Not Pirate World! I bought my games as I'm sure most in the thread have. Don't Assume we are pirates because we have the right to make a backup up of something we spend 50 dollars on! I can copy my music to my Ipod from my CD-ROM Disc, Why should I not be able to backup my Game-Disc incase of incident!

When I install a game, I want only the GAME on my machine. When I listen to a sony Music CD, I want only the MUSIC on my machine.
This Copy Protection thing in general is absurd:

Developers Spend Money on Protections that will be cracked or are intrusive on the consumer then pass the savings on to you in the form of a 50-60 dollar price tag.

PIRATES DO NOT PAY FOR SOFTWARE! STARFORCE & THE REST ARE ALIENATING THE PEOPLE TO WHO DO BUY THE SOFTWARE.

IS THIS THE WAY TO DO GOOD BUSINESS?

Microsoft just announced that they will recognize Sony's DRM RootKit as Malware in the latest version of Microsoft AntiSpyware. These are the steps needed to show that the cost of DRM is more than the Gain. You have to speak DOLLAR SIGNS or they don't understand!

BOYCOTT STARFORCE MEANS THE COST > THE GAIN

Sorry Developers some of your products are damn good.
Some of your CEO's are NOT!

I'm pissed off now.. Going to play Some Battlefiled 2 From my ORIGINAL DISC!

[DABhand]

Again unless stated in the TOS or EULA, you can make a backup (1 of) if stated. If not you can not make a backup.

Doesnt matter the country your in either. The contents are copyrighted and is owned by the developer/publisher.


Also, I think the other guy was saying that about most people who download the games not everyone here. Its true though most of the SF moaners are people who used to download their images and play away now its getting difficult for them and now they cant.

What a shame, Not!

[Grumpy]

There have been some very valid comment mentioned here recently. Has definately been a very interesting read indeed.

@Dieselbrad

Going to play Some Battlefiled 2 From my ORIGINAL DISC!

You can use a mini image for BF2, and it still works online. My BF2 mini image stays permanently mounted! And the BF2 mini image also works for Special Forces. I use my own mini image but I believe the 'bleh' one on GCW works fine for others.

[DaRipper]

Originally Posted by Dieselbrad

Don't Assume we are pirates because we have the right to make a backup up of something we spend 50 dollars on! I can copy my music to my Ipod from my CD-ROM Disc, Why should I not be able to backup my Game-Disc incase of incident!

Good point! I'd rather keep the originals in their cases and use copies. When the copy dies, I break the disc into pieces and make another one... At least the originals will still be here, and the cost would be very much lower!!

This Copy Protection thing in general is absurd:

Developers Spend Money on Protections that will be cracked or are intrusive on the consumer then pass the savings on to you in the form of a 50-60 dollar price tag.

PIRATES DO NOT PAY FOR SOFTWARE! STARFORCE & THE REST ARE ALIENATING THE PEOPLE TO WHO DO BUY THE SOFTWARE.

IS THIS THE WAY TO DO GOOD BUSINESS?

Annoying Copy Protection + High Price Tag = less consumers.

They should review their equations!! Maybe the developers are trying to frighten pirates, but they are frightening potential buyers for sure! How many gamers who were faithful to some publisher are now willing to actually STOP buying games from them if they continue using StarForce as copy protection? And when faithful followers stop supporting their favorite publishers, how will they sell to new customers? A great deal of new gamers get info from elders, so if elders tell you a game's not worth the pain, you are less inclined to buy it!


PS:I managed to finish POP3 in 2 days and to clear the side effects of SF, I had to reformat my baby. Lucky I had 2 HDD, so I didn't lose data. So much time lost because of one game, I'm definitely staying away from SF from now on.

[Pandaman]

To those who accuse people against StarForce as being whining pirates:

1) StarForce can be easily circumvented - just look it up on Google, it's like three easy steps.

2) StarForce has been known to damage CD/DVD drives on certain versions of WinXP and/or firmwares.

3) StarForce leaves a gaping security hole in your system by granting system level privileges to everything running on your computer.

4) Games with StarForce do not tell you that it is being installed, nor does it remove it the game is uninstalled.

So companies that use StarForce are endangering your CD/DVD drive and security for a worthless anti-piracy program that can only be removed by a tool offered by its creators - meaning if you didn't know you had StarForce installed, you wouldn't know to remove it.

If you still think StarForce is a good idea, you're either a troll or a blithering idiot.

[Joe Forster/STA]

See my analogy with gene-manipulated food, in my earlier posts in this thread.

One test is no test. Ten tests are no test. Even a thousand tests are no test. A few million tests... now, we're talking about some kind of evidence! However, on the level of a few million tests Starforce was counter-proven. There's no point about more arguments or stupid contests from the developers. Case closed, period!

With my analogy, the manufacturing of gene-manipulated food is too cheap to stop only because a few ten people out of every million die because of eating it. Wow, talk about justification!

[Edit] Oh, and as for test systems, fuck the virgin ones. Whoops! I mean, systems used day by day are the ideal test systems. Such a low-level system, that Starforce is, has to be able to cope with unusual settings, drivers, components, whatever. Which is why it should be very careful about what it does. Which it isn't...