GT4 Backup

[reddragon105]

Originally Posted by Jay_83

@ reddragon105

Totally disagree mate. If you don't think it's worth buying then you just don't buy it. It doesn't mean it's ok to do a copy of it!

What you're saying is no different than me going into a store, stealing some stock then later when pulled by security saying "I wasn't gonna buy them so they're not losing any money"

actually it is different. i was trying to point out that, while i don't condone piracy and i buy all the games i think are worth buying, there is a difference between stealing and piracy.
stealing a game would be going into a shop and taking a game without paying for it, hence taking money away from the shop (which is what you were talking about when you said.
piracy is making a copy of the game, so doesn't involve taking anything away from the shop.
so the companies don't lose money, they just lose potential earnings.

it is of course still theft, as the software is copyrighted and you have to pay for permission to use it, hence copyright theft. but they're not losing money over it, they're just not getting as much money as they would get if piracy was impossible and everyone had to buy the game if they wanted to play it.
which brings me back to the first thing i said - if i pirated a game it would be because its crap. well thats just a hypothetical situation because if i thought a game was crap i wouldnt bother pirating it, there would be no point. if i thought it was worth playing i'd buy it.
it's certainly wrong for someone to copy a game if they wanted to play it, and they play a pirated copy instead of buying a real copy. but my point is that they have NOT taken £35 away from the shop, they have prevented the shop from getting an extra £35 that they should have got because they should have bought the game.

see the difference?
i'm not saying piracy can be justified because it only prevents potential profits, i'm just saying there's a difference between preventing profit and taking money away.

[Jay_83]

@ reddragon105 - Your post makes little sense, you'd only pirate a game if it was crap, yet you wouldn't pirate a crap game.
At the end of the day if you're gonna copy a game it's gonna be because you want to play it again, hence it's wrong. No two ways about it. You can't pirate a game because it's crap and you're never gonna play it again. Thats just wierd

piracy is making a copy of the game, so doesn't involve taking anything away from the shop.

I don't care about the shop, EBgames/game can suck my dong. It's the developer, the one thats sat behind a desk working his/her butt off. Every time you pirate a game the developer loses as well. If ebgames/game don't sell their game, They won't buy more hence less sales.

@ snake2 -

if you can't aford the games then why would you have the system that plays the games?

We're not talking about the one game buddy, we're talking about principle etc.


@ ottoman - Mate your views are exactly the same as mine, think we just explain them differently


@ SurfDrifter - Sounds to me like the problem lies where you live and not the industry as a whole. I'd be the same mate, if they were releasing budget pooh games for the same price as things like GT4 i'd be pissed too....like this ---
Sounds like you're already buying online and it's probably the way to go in greece. (Actually i'm thinking of a holiday their this year )


Well done people!!!! If you type "GT4 BACKUP" in google we're 4th from the top

[reddragon105]

@ Jay_83 - sorry for sounding weird, i hope this is a clearer way of putting it:
take, for example, a game that i like and a game that i don't (just personal opinion here, so don't take offence anyone!). i like San Andreas, think it's worth buying, so i've bought it. i don't like Need For Speed Underground 2, so i haven't bought it.
now what i was trying to say, is that by not buying NFSU2, EA (the publishers) have not got the £30 from me that they would get if i bought the game. if i went into a shop and stole a copy, the shop would lose money (however much they buy them in for, say £20). however if i made a pirate copy of the game, that would *not* be stealing from EA. they would never make the £30 from me, because i wouldn't need to buy the game because i have a copy. but it wouldn't be taking any money *away* from them would it? they wouldn't lose £30 because i've pirated the game.
but of course i wouldn't pirate it if i didn't like it and didn't want to play it. that's why i said it's only a hypothetical situation. i hope that's a bit clearer.


as for the developers - the average person working on developing a game will work 9-5 and will be paid a salary. they will turn up to their desk every day, do some programming/modelling/testing/whatever, then go home having made their hourly wage. they've made their money regardless of how many copies the game sells.
it's the publishers that pay the developers to make the game. once they've made the game, the publishers mass produce it and distribute it. they make all the profit. if they've paid the developers, say, $1,000,000 to make the game, and the game only makes $500,000, then that's their problem. if the game makes £10,000,000, then it's the publishers who benefit.

that's how companies like EA can afford to buy out loads of smaller companies, so they have the rights to all the games they make, and get these profits. that's why publishers are faceless corporations that make loads of money simply for being the ones who coordinate development, production and distribution. that's why Valve released Half Life 2 over Steam - to cut out the middle-man so that all the money went directly to the developers.

we all care about developers, they're the talented and artistic people who make the games we love. but at the end of the day, they're shafted by the publishers. if they made a game and didn't publish it, they'd make no money at all, so they have no choice but to use a publisher. i suppose that some developers get contracts that give them a lump sum to make a game, then a percentage of the profits, but that would be a tiny sum compared to the slice the publisher takes. i guess some publishers might be nice enough to give their developers bonuses if a game does unexpectedly well, but really the only thing a games success will do for it's developers is give them the right to demand more money from the publisher to develop their next game.

[Jay_83]

You wouldn't pirate a game you don't want, hence whats the point of you even arguing about it. If you pirate a game whether you want it or not the developer DOES lose out.....noone in their right mind pirates a game they don't want so it's a stupid argument that you can't get out of.

Also yet again, If the developer's company doesnt have a good turn over....
generally because the game game doesn't sell well do you honestly thing the company will keep them all in jobs? um, no.

Lastly publishers DO NOT pay developers to make the game, i've never heard something so stupid in my life. Hence why different region games often have different publishers

Virgin most definatly did NOT pay capcom to make SFA in the uk!

[reddragon105]

Originally Posted by Jay_83

noone in their right mind pirates a game they don't want.

i agree with that statement, that's why i said hypothetically, basically it means 'if'. as in, IF i pirated a game, it wouldn't take away any money from the shop/publishers, it would just stop them getting more. that's not an argument, it's a fact.

when a developer makes their first game the publisher obviously will not pay them while they are making that. but in order to make money from the game the first-time developers will have to find a publisher and make a deal. publishers buy the rights to the game, that's where the developers get their money from. if you write a book, make a game, or whatever, and send it to a publishers, and they decide to publish it, they buy the rights. they usually pay a lump sum, followed by a percentage of the profits (unless you're a complete newbie author/developer in which case they might not). they are also likely to contract you to have your next game or two published through them. once a developer is established, they receive funding from the publisher they are contracted to.
once the game is finished the developers already have the money the publishers agreed to pay them. as the publishers own the rights to the game, any profits are theirs unless they agreed on giving the developers a percentage as well.


there are other ways for developers to get money, but the vast majority will get funds from the publisher they are contracted to.
check out this link:
http://www.obscure.co.uk/industry_overview.shtml

and i quote from it:
"Developers - The companies or people who create the games. ... More often than not the developers are funded by a Publisher to produce a game. ...publisher funding is still the major method of bringing a product to market."

[Jay_83]

For main stream console games that isn't the case,

Take GT4 for example, developed by polyphony studios which are In-House sony developers, hence published by sony.

GTA Series - Developed by Rockstar Studios, In house company of Take2. Hence published by Take2

EA Games - Developed by EA games in house departments, Published by EA Games


Crappy titles it's true of, and most of the time it's TDK that publish them.

[reddragon105]

Originally Posted by Jay_83

For main stream console games that isn't the case,

Take GT4 for example, developed by polyphony studios which are In-House sony developers, hence published by sony.

GTA Series - Developed by Rockstar Studios, In house company of Take2. Hence published by Take2

EA Games - Developed by EA games in house departments, Published by EA Games


Crappy titles it's true of, and most of the time it's TDK that publish them.

that's the same case, that's exactly what i was saying. in those cases, the people making the games are getting paid by the publishers, because the company they work for ARE the publishers, or owned by the publishers.
even if Polyphony Digital are owned by Sony, they still received money from Sony to make Gran Turismo 4

[Jay_83]

No, If the company is In-House they receive all royalities.

[TylerDurden]

Stupid already. Thread CLOSED!