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Old 29-11-2007, 16:12
DABhand DABhand is offline
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Time to go it is :)

Lately there seems to be a anti-me feeling in the forum, and one moderator thinks im acting like a moderator, god knows why they think that but thats his opinion.

Ive been around here for a long time (as you can see from the date to the left), I have tried to help people, I have tried to help keep undiserables out (not as a mod of course or act like one) as in trying to do what any other person would do and thats help protect a place where people enjoy coming to, and if that somehow makes me an acting mod as per say then that just proves a point im making.

And of course try to help people make their own trainers, nice to see some people benefit, shame it wasnt a bigger success than I hoped, but it did good which as it was intended.

I come here to enjoy the forum, the members, the atmosphere, the laughs, the highs and the lows. And I always enjoyed a good catch the naughty people out, which I have done for some years now, but only recently this seems to be unacceptable (some of my posts mysteriously venturing into the twilight zone) funny that other people who do the exact same as me seem to be ok, funny aint it. And one person who did the same as me for the same amount of time (and perhaps even longer) is now a Moderator. Even funnier. But that person is a great guy and he deserves it, long may the reign run.

So now its become a chore so to speak to just come on and read things, and over the last few months things have gotten lax as im sure Empire would agree partly with. And a couple of moderators cant even distinguish what people are actually writing/posting or what they intended to talk about. For example, someone being derogatory to people from Pakistan, now I dont know how all people feel about that, but seeing something like that in a forum not only would annoy people of said country, but other users too. Strange it wasnt really dealt with.

Then only after that I made a fact about Germans, there was no racism involved, but of course the point that some people dont read what has been said fully is an example here, I was labelled racists by some and a moderator closed the thread and I was made to look the aggressor.

Its not only that instance that has made me decide to leave here there is many others.

Anyways wish the regulars well, and ill hang about for a couple of days to read the farewell's and of course no doubt some moans from people who have nothing better to do with their times, and hope the regulars have a good time and that some things can be changed to improve the forums reputation a bit (there is a bit of talk that it has become less and less helpfull - some people seeking help and following the rules are now greeted with "check the FAQ", they had the nice thought to write out a message they should have the similar respect and have a decent answer.)

So on that note, I shall say cheerio! and wish you well. (funny this all started essentially over my disagreement over a country's copyright law in a way).

Oh and ill leave the tuts as is for learning to train games, perhaps others will learn and become good trainer makers in the future

Last edited by DABhand; 29-11-2007 at 16:15.
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Old 29-11-2007, 17:02
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As this is partly a, shall we say, "hidden attack" against my person, let me clear up a few things...

The mysterious moderator DABhand is talking about is me. Obviously, there must have been a reason why I became a moderator and still am one. I'm not saying I never made mistakes but I'm willing to learn from them. In many cases, I discussed things with the other moderators and they mostly agreed with me. (This applies especially to the cases mentioned by DABhand!) (And don't think that I'm such a charming personality and other moderators are so enchanted by it that they follow my every command. Nope, they have their own opinion and we don't always agree.) So, when I'm being pointed at as some evil guy, please, think about why my decisions were not overruled by other moderators or Empire himself.

Yes, I agree, I have also been harrassing people breaking the forum rules in the past when I was not yet a moderator. That's not good; I'm still wondering why past moderators let it/me/us go on. This, along with the known fact that I'm not really good friends with DABhand, is the reason why I've been trying to avoid him as some serious reciprocations from me would have seemed to be on a personal basis. This is something a moderator can't afford to do as it would cast a bad shadow on the forum itself. Another something a moderator can't afford is harrassing people; if you look at my posts, their "offensiveness" level has been decreasing since I became a moderator.

However, exactly the two cases mentioned were one the reasons finally leading to introducing "don't moderate" explicitly in the forum rules. And, yes, we moderators decided that, instead of acting in a harsher way, some of DABhand's unnecessary posts will be deleted without notice so that he gets the message. Well, his posts definitely got much more to the point and the unnecessary ones much rarer which we most welcomed. (First, I also sent a few warning PM's - not warnings, infractions or bans! - for some posts that simply mentioned the forum rules to newbies but I was overruled - yay, did that really happen?! -, saying that non-offensive reminders from forum members should also be accepted.) Also, if I remember correctly, DABhand has been explicitly notified about the changes in the forum rules and asked to report offending posts instead of replying (perhaps, in an offending way) to them. And, believe me, authors of other offending posts do get their deserved warnings, infractions or bans - it might be a mistake that we don't always post a reply about this fact into the thread, though...

As for always referring newbies to the FAQ, that's an exaggeration. Specific questions are answered with the same specificness, but are generic questions supposed to be answered again and again? I don't think so. Reading the fucking manual (or FAQ) is a habit that people should be reminded of always, everywhere, every time; getting used to doing it pays off very well in the long run. As for not packaging this into a nice, long reply... well, lack of time to answer generic questions again and again was also the reason for creating a FAQ in the first place, right? You see, why bother to come up with tons of possible solutions when you don't even know what version and language of the game the poster has, what hardware and operating system he has, whether or not he has tried to usual general solutions. One would think people first read the FAQ and ask their questions with mentioning that yes, they have read the FAQ, tried this, this and this and none of them helped; then can another forum member do something useful by continuing with other specific answers. (This does not apply to this forum only but to any forum where non-expert people seek help.)

With power comes responsibility. I do feel that I've been acting mostly in a a responsible way as a moderator - firmly but not harshly - and I will continue to do so. You don't know a lot about what's going on in the background and, well, it might not even be your business. I'm open to suggestions that make sense, though, so if "there is a bit of talk" - how do you know? have forum members contacted you and complained about the behavior of moderators instead of sending the complaint directly to us? were those righteous complaints or just whines about getting warned/banned for something obviously against the forum rules? - then let it be known. (Perhaps, in a different thread.) Yes, maybe the forum rules are just too tight and we're enforcing it too rigidly. Well, then what is the plan of loosening things a bit, while still keeping warez kiddies off the forum - in order to avoid the forum from becoming a complete mess and/or getting shut down by gaming companies - and making "is this a warez discussion or not?" decisions as simple as possible? We've seen so many tricks and tales in the past years and all these have been added to the forum rules so that noone can say we didn't warn everyone clearly enough about them. (Or would you like to get banned about something that is not explicitly covered by the forum rules but the moderators don't like it for some other, secret reason?!)

But, as long as the newest set of forum rules are in effect, I ask everyone to not reply to insults and not get entangled in flame wars; report them instead with the traffic sign symbol. Also, if you see posts breaking the forum rules and decide to not report them (why?!) but instead remind the other forum user - most probably, a newbie - of the forum rules then do it in a civilized way: if my usual "read the PC Games forum FAQ" reply is considered hardly acceptable then "[...], you idiot!" (not a specific quote from anyone, just an exaggerating example!) and similar replies should be considered completely unacceptable.
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Last edited by Joe Forster/STA; 29-11-2007 at 18:05.
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Old 29-11-2007, 18:01
DABhand DABhand is offline
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Since you have come forward and painted yourself Joe, I guess I can now answer some of your points you have made.

1. I have never said you dont do a good job, only regular goers know about us not liking each other, I dont hate you Joe (I have never said I have) but I respect you (which I have mentioned a few times).

2. Yes actually alot of new users or some semi-regular users have been pushed toward the FAQ instead of giving them the benefit and find out what the problem is. When I can, I do offer advice and/or try to find out their problem. Software problems is of course a FAQ/Developer thing, but other things like crack usage, hardware etc is best to offer some sort of advice or show interest in their problems, after all doing so only gives out positive feelings about the forum and other users.

3. I had no idea who was deleting my posts, it could have been any moderator, so you are jumping to conclusions when you thought I was talking about yourself Joe, but now I do know it was you since you decided to let me know.

4. "Hidden attack"? Really Joe, I was outlining my reasons of leaving not to attack you personally, if I wanted to do that and do it well I would have done something more extravagant than trying to cryptically point the finger of blame at you. And if you really read what I said in my post you will see I wasnt pointing a finger of blame as to why im leaving, but one reason. If that were the case Joe I would have been gone years ago wouldnt I have.

5. The person who posted the same as me isnt you Joe, so im sure you can rest easily knowing it wasnt you and im not on some Vendetta against you. Like I already said I may not like you but I respect you. I even wished the regulars (which includes you) well.

6. Dunno why you think I was moderating or thinking im a moderator, like I said that is your opinion, but know this if I was offered I wouldnt have taken a position as mod anyway, ive been a mod on several forums in the past and I know how much of a hinderance and constant supply of headaches it can be.

7. My advice to you is, really read what is being said (I understand English isnt your first language) and not put your foot into it when you misread what is being brought forward, because in my honest opinion you take things the wrong way.
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Old 29-11-2007, 18:20
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I came forward because I like clear situations. I don't want anyone to righteously say that I was sneaking around and stabbing anyone in the back; that's not my style. (Concerning stuff related to you, I wasn't acting on my own either, again, to make sure I'm not personally biased or can be suspected to be personally biased.) If that means confronting someone in the open, well, so be it.

Sorry about the "hidden attack" expression but I thought, perhaps, other forum members would wonder whoever (part of) your post is about. I understand that we're not in the same position but I, personally, would've expected that you don't be this cryptic but explicitly name the person you're talking about. (Which brings us back to the previous paragraph but, I see, you don't confront people in the same way as I do. Well, we're different... I can accept that.)

As for referring people to the FAQ, all I can promise is to try to be more specific in the future but I also promise I won't repeat any information that is covered by the FAQ because then the FAQ would entirely miss its point.

And thank you for your concern about my mastering the art of the English language but I don't seem to have major problems with it. (Another moderator, a native English-speaker recently mentioned this and I've had several similar occasions in the past years while providing user support for my own free softwares.) Also, if I misunderstand something, the other moderators will definitely let me know about it, just as I do in the other direction.

(And, yes, "software" has no plural. But I don't give a shit about that. )
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Last edited by Joe Forster/STA; 29-11-2007 at 18:26.
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Old 29-11-2007, 21:35
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sad to see someone with 4000+ posts go, i can understand both sides, looks quite complex and no quick solution to be found sadly... perhaps instead of leaving dab, just take a break, come back refreshed, see if your heart is still in the forum?
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Old 30-11-2007, 00:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TippeX View Post
...instead of leaving dab, just take a break, come back refreshed, see if your heart is still in the forum?
sounds good
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Old 30-11-2007, 09:00
DABhand DABhand is offline
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I dunno TippeX, Joe does a good job but there is always that thing between us that will always be there.

Joe would probably do a better job without me being here, and myself wouldnt feel like I have to watch what I say etc every 10 seconds :P

Plus im hardly around as much as before, running a business is time consuming and I cant afford to have distractions of silly arguments when running my business, so perhaps best all round I just leave

But ill send anything I find to GCW of course. And anything I create if I ever decide to do trainers :P
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Old 30-11-2007, 09:18
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It's sad to see this happen since you both been here for a long time, made a lot of posts and have had a good time. I can see why you both think like you do and I hate to see anyone vanish since there's so few really active members on this board already (atleast the parts that I read ).

I also feel that when a moderator and an user can't put their differences aside on a forum I think you both are taking it a little too serious.

However I wish you good luck in the future DABhand and hope that we may see you from time to time in the future.
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Old 30-11-2007, 10:53
BarryB BarryB is offline
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Bummer!

The only thing I can suggest is let mods other than Joe deal with your posts as you two obviously won't be forced to like each other and will probably just argue your corner anyway!

But yeah, take a break see how you feel and PM any of us if you want to Dab, but do what you thinks best for you, not us!
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Old 30-11-2007, 11:18
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Yeah, I was just going to suggest this: let other moderators deal with DABhand's posts and keep me in the background as some kind of counsellor instead.
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Old 30-11-2007, 18:14
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sounds a bit harsh, but perhaps adding each other to ignore list might do the job, if someone steps out of line either joe, or dab reports it and another mod steps in?

seems a decent compromise to me...
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Old 02-12-2007, 21:53
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Once you think about it, 4000 posts is a pretty obvious sign of some type of addiction You might be a bit frustrated atm, but like TippeX said just take a step back and chillax. There's a good chance that if you take some time off, you'll be back in a month or two as if this never happened
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Old 04-12-2007, 03:39
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I don't know why so much bad feeling about "don't remember the rules policy" I you read all my posts here I have never remebered the rules to anyone is just a waste of time. I personally have always disliked the moderator wanabies (NOT DAB coz he's respetable) but others on other forums i have visited

For example in mg I sometimes laughed about the spammers sometimes but i never said them "dont post spam read the rules"

Sometimes you see these Anti-warez haters and they started asking for a serial or something in the old posts the get warned or temp banned and then they return remembering the rules to the new users even they were the same ironic no?

I am gonna be sincere I don't like several forum rules most online forums have these days I don't like excesive censorship but I obey them coz I don't want to be banned I generally don't say this very often coz i generally ends in flames precisely by those users wanabies thatt dream to be Mods but one different thing is not agree and other different is not obey them so i follow them anyways I will continue too and is something generic these days on most forums like i previously said. I am accostumed so please don't start with the flamming circus

And at the end of the day are not the forums the ones to blame, are the goverments and their political correctness the ones blame.Forums only try to protect from the rigurous laws

And DAB you should not leave for that just change a bit your attitude you are valuable and this new rule is not realy harsh anyway

Last edited by acal3000; 04-12-2007 at 03:41.
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Old 04-12-2007, 07:02
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In general, strict forum rules are along the way of signs like "intelligent people don't piss into the pool; for others, it is prohibited". (Such signs don't really exist yet, only in jokes, although they definitely should. Unfortunately, today we do need reminders that people should've learned proper behavior in their childhood already - and many didn't, as many newbies on this forum prove to us every day.)
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Old 04-12-2007, 07:05
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Some of the rules that are in place are there to avoid this site being viewed as a purely 'warez orientated' site, hence censorship of obvious 'warez' related topics. We are not asking people to 'like them' we ask people follow them while using this forum!

The 'Mod' rule was introduced for various reasons, user to user arguments and flaming if one user starts 'moderating' another user is a prime example. There is a 'report post' function if you see something that needs reporting, we want people to use it, that's what it's for.

This isn't a 'political' forum either, there are many rules in society that people don't like but have to put up with, this forum is no different in that respect regarding rules. You've adpated to our rules, you don't like them but you accept them, like many things in life you don't like but have to 'accept' you just have to grin and bear it!
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