A real solution to the StarF**k virus for everyone.

[Grumpy]

Yes I too have experienced problems with Starforce and will gladly boycott buying any more Starforce protected games!
I too had problems with Alcohol 120 and my drives after installing a Starforce game!
I too will not go to the extremes of disabling drives etc to play the few starforce games i have, instead prefering to just use the original discs.
From now on the only Starforce game which will be played on my 3 systems is Race Driver 2 as this has never caused me any problems before. It is just the later Starforce Protected games!
The way things are going with PC games we will all eventually have no choice but to buy one of the console machines. This would be a shame to have to do as ive always believed, for most games, the experience is way better on a top end PC. If we all went to consoles the gaming industry would still make their money from the games! It almost seems as if this is what the industry wants us to do!
So yes, no more Starforce Games for me!

[dajunka]

That's the spirit.
There are 3 games coming out this year that I will be buying on day of release, X3 , COD2, and Black and White 2. I am really looking forward to playing these games. But I will be checking on the copy protection that they come with, and if it's SF, then it's a big flat NO!. Ill buy something else with my money.

[JediKnight]

Piracy is way of life.... if you have the money to buy originals, do it. If not, get an illegal copy and use a crack.

[DABhand]

Silly boy.


As I said Blame the people who steal.

There is hundreds of thousands perhaps millions who download their games, about 15-20% are projected loss of sales. Which is quite alot of a loss.

In simple terms it is stealing bottom line. No matter what the excuse of the person is.


There is no point in trying to bycott anything, sure they may lose peoples as customers, but what they lose in customers they gain in new people venturing into the PC market with their new machines, its an evergrowing circle.

[DABhand]

Originally Posted by dajunka

I can't do that.. That’s like saying Some dude on the other side of the world goes and wastes some other dude on the other side of the world, then the fuzz coming round my house and arresting me for it. You can't pass the buck over to the innocent for the crimes of the guilty, that just isn’t right, the publishers, in this case are at fault, theres always been pirates but there's never been aggressive protection on this scale before.

Murder and Piracy are 2 different things, you cant compare the 2.

But in a business, as it always has been for decades, if one company has losses they make up for the losses by increasing prices.

As does software publishers.

As I said before the reason protections are so much in a huge scale is because the countless people downloading illegally. Once apon a time the net was full of free webspace providers, like xoom etc, they all closed that services because of warez sites. Now they are doing the same with games, introducing a protection that may well affect 3-5% of the population (but SF has been kind to make fixes for people which many of you have forgotten). PC's arent all the same, my systems is different from your own, but SF has caused me no problems whatsoever.

[DABhand]

Originally Posted by Eagle

One question that bugs me for ages: Why do pure multiplayer games have to have a copyprotection? A serial/cd key that is checked on every connect to a game server is IMHO fully sufficient.

Because of the chance people may make a public server for games, they would prefer to use protections so no tom **** or harry can copy the game and take home to play free on a public server.

[Morglum007]

@DABhand:

FIRST:

I would like to know if u are in the distributors part, or in the real game publisher part. As i know, game developers are WAITING for its game to be released on p2p nets. If game have acceptance, then they pick up a champagne bottle and celebrates it like a birthday. Game will be sold. If it does not appear, then worry about.
People who doesn't like that are publisers, and thats the people add copyprotections to games they distribute. Just THINK about this:
Commandos SAGA; Pyro studios; EIDOS:

Game studio: 3-5€ per copy sold (Pyro)
Distributor: 12-20€ per copy sold (EIDOS)
Shop: 12-20# per copy sold
TOTAL final PRIZE: 27-45€ per USER copy
Do u see SOMETHING there???????? I think u should be BLIND to avoid it. Game market is like pointed above, so please don't talk about things u don't know.

SECOND:

U should know how SF works inside ur box, and then u will worry for ur windows integrity. Futhermore, do u know how SF sends/receive IDE info??, i think not. Do u know whats Themida is?, and its compatibility problems?
U are so happy by now, till something becomes hard, then u will begin to think about.

Read and learn.

[DABhand]

Morglum dont make me pull out your real name ;P hehe

Anyways hehehe, im talking on the publisher end, I know the developer would be happy whatever the price the game is set at aslong as money is coming after their publisher contract (i.e. royalties).

Before you assume my understanding of how software/hardware works. Do have a look at the coders forum, I do have knowledge of ASM, API's, etc etc. And im in the business of Selling and Buying, Upgrading and Building PC's and components.

[Morglum007]

Then, u have similar knowledge i have, so then, u should understand me without problems.

Respecting SF stuff, i think i have advantaje, both code and physical working, but who knows.... ^^

[mastergamer]

I will never buy a SF protected game
never!!

[CrossWire]

Same here, I’m in, no more games with this unrighteous protection shall ever see my hard drive.

One of the threads on this forum had 186000 views, so if everyone of those people said no to a game using starforce costing £30, then the publisher would be out of pocket for £5580000, friggin hek, He would have to eat at McDonalds.

[Joe Forster/STA]

Hey Morglum007,

Don't bother with DABhand, he has been blinded with the stupid, demagog whining of game publishers about piracy and he cannot get rid of it...

Piracy is blown up by them, as a good reason for them to A) add copy protection and/or B) raise final product prices. On the other hand, the true problem lies in low quality games sold for high prices. It is not the "not so casual pirates" who are greedy, it's the corporations. (And this applies to the movie and music industry, too, not just the video game industry!)

Joe

[DABhand]

Joe you still have to answer my question about your law.

What is your intepretation of the "contract" which is said in the line you pasted?


Im not the one blinded, im stating facts, im not happy with high prices, but im not going to blame them for it, as you well know and wont admit if it wasnt for piracy and warez these prices wouldnt be so high.

And as ive said before ive heard the countless favourite excuses, ive been around since early atari consoles etc, ive seen prices exceed due to piracy.


But im still waiting to hear your answer on that question, that you non-challantly gave a wide berth in an earlier thread a month or so ago.

[Joe Forster/STA]

Hey DABhand,

I have nothing more to answer you as I gave you my answer back then already! If you didn't understand it or didn't want to accept it, that's your problem, not mine.

As it has been pointed out by others on this forum, too, local, country-specific laws have priority over any EULA. There's nothing to be dicussed about it. If you think there is, you gotta "read and learn", as Morglum007 kindly put it.

As for my country, Hungarian law gives you the right to make one backup copy of your original software. There's nothing to be dicussed about it. If you think there is, you gotta learn Hungarian and translate that sentence - or see the original on the Artisjus page - yourself.

So, for the Nth time, what are we arguing about when I'm stating facts and you're just babbling around?!

Joe

[DABhand]

Thats why I asked you, what your intepretation of the contract was.


The contract is an agreement on both parties you and the publisher, and only time you do this is by saying yes to the EULA. That is the contract, and your law says aslong as both parties agree you can make a backup of your software. But, if in the EULA it says it does not you cant.

If by law you are to make a backup of anything, then publishers would be breaking the law by selling software with protections in your country, since you cant easily make a backup.

Im not babbling on, im not giving my intepretation of things, im stating what is and how it is.

And its people who read one persons outrage about something then adopt it themselves without even thinking it out themselves, this leads to all these "Publishers are evil" threads, when as I said the publishers are not to blame entirely, but your ordinary people who download. If it wasnt for those ordinary people downloading, you may have seen more easier to use protections even simple ones.

Im having a debate here, not looking for a fight or a flame war, but it is suprising that many wont view other ideas or facts and think their way is the only way.

Just because I dont share the same ideal views as yourself or others, im supposedly noobish or not worth listening to?

There is always a 2nd side to everything, and I mean everything.

This is for everyone, if you start up a thread for discussion or debate, you must be willing to accept or debate about another persons view. If you dont you shouldnt start up these threads, as you will never get a 100% agreement on anything.

To sum up on this debate, ill put my main points across and leave it at that.

1. Starting up a group to bycott games with SF isnt the best way, not only will the publishers not care they wont listen to what you have to say then, they will view you as non-purchasee i.e. not worth time and money. Best thing to do is get your specs of your PC, with problems using SF protected games, your views both pros and cons and then send to Starforce or the publisher themselves, that way they can work out what is going wrong and correct it. Just like game patches are supposed to do.

2. Blaming the publisher or protection makers is also not the way to go, the only way these bizarre (and yes some are badly made) protections are around is because of the projected loss of sales due to piracy, piracy is here will be always here and probably wont stop. Its the greed of individuals that causes these more bizzare protections to appear on the market.

3. Wether people like it or not, Alcohol 120% or daemon tools is an essential warez app, if you have installed the protections will stop thinking you may or may not have a illegal image of a game, it doesnt know this 100% so to be safe it will detect the emulation and stop. What a protection should be doing, that is what it is made for.

4. As in JediKnights post as I quote "Piracy is way of life.... if you have the money to buy originals, do it. If not, get an illegal copy and use a crack." This is the usual response from a warez kiddy, when you download a game it is not Piracy! Piracy is illegal selling of a game, your just stealing downloading it, but it as just as bad. Now imagine a few million JediKnights thinking the same thing. How many would actually do what was originally said, do you think if they have money go out and buy a game? No offcourse not, they download it cause its free. Stealing plain and simple. And as said before, it doesnt matter if a game is badly designed etc, it is the same stealing.
But what most dont realise is, games like KOTOR2 etc were downloaded alot, so game quality doesnt promise good sales. Even if a game was $5 people would still steal it, that is how it is.