A real solution to the StarF**k virus for everyone.

[Grumpy]

@Joe
Yes, exactly! I agree with what you say, 100%.

[CPUYODA]

Ive BEEN boycotting them.......and the only two I miss are SH3 and GTR,because I got a PC to fool with simulations.

But really,if you want a POPULAR boycott,start a site,and keep an up-to-date list of the current games using it.

I'd personally like to see a class action brought against them,and maybe get a law that makes companies state ON THE BOX what protections are used.

Its not likely to happen,but neither is me buy any game I know that uses starcrud.

If EA ever goes that route,alot more people will discover the nasty side of it.

Great discussion guys,most everything else has been said....

[Grumpy]

@CPUYoda
cdsteam already keeps a list of all the games which use Starforce.

[dajunka]

I have been continuing my research, and done quite a bit of probing.
And no zhit guys more and more people are saying no to SF protected games every day. The name StarForce is rapidly becoming a dirty word in the computer community.
Unfortunately my knowledge of web design is limited to f**k all, or I might have had a go at making my own Anti Starforce community web site. Anyway it's a very good idea.
Keep it up, spread the good word, and remember you are not alone.
Let's bury these SF b******ds, so that they never make another penny at our expense.

[CPUYODA]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

@CPUYoda
cdsteam already keeps a list of all the games which use Starforce.

See thats great,but I'd never heard of it....

I generally try my best to find out when demos appear(most SF games have SF in the DEMOS too?!?)

Kudos guys!

[DABhand]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

@Dabhand
What a complete load of ****e!
When they say 'software' most would presume they are talking about the game as being the said software!
You are asked during the game install, "Do you want to install (ie) V8 Supercars?"
Do you want to install (ie) DirectX9?
Do you want to install Gamespy?
Do you want to install the Acrobat Reader?
All software which we are told about!
But nowhere are we asked "Do you want to install Starforce?"
This, and you damn well know it, is not what they mean by software!
If they had nothing to hide they would also ask "Do you want to install Starforce?"

Cmon Grumpy I know your more clever than that, the protection is part of the game which you install.

Which is what is mentioned by ALL SOFTWARE in the EULA.

[Joe Forster/STA]

DABhand,

See the applications Grumpy has listed:

- V8 Supercars is by whatever game publisher (don't remember);
- DirectX is by Micro$oft;
- Gamespy is by whatever other publisher;
- Acrobat Reader is by Adobe.

These applications have been developed and published by different companies, therefore, their EULA's are definitely not the same. Actually, before installing them, you can see their own EULA's displayed and you're required to accept them, don't you?

Starforce is by Starforce Technologies or whatever. Another developer and publisher. Why isn't its own EULA displayed? Especially, that, while:

- DirectX is a well-known component of the operating system, is present on pretty much any Windows PC and does nothing bad to your system;
- Gamespy and Acrobat Reader are also old (not obsolete!), respected applications and do nothing bad,

Starforce is a new, unproven (khm!) technology and it is already known to cause minor or major problems.

So?

Joe

[Grumpy]

@Dabhand
You really are being stupidly pig headed about this! I dont know exactly what you are trying to prove?
It does NOT say in the EULA that you accept the installing of any sort of Protection! It says Software, that in itself is misleading! The more you point out the more I believe it would not stand up in a court of law!
They are hiding behind the word Software! It is illegal to mislead or decieve people!
You are showing yourself to be a right twat!

Prediction: Yes I know what you are going to say Dabhand! "It says software in the EULA and you agree to it when you install!" yeh yeh yeh!

[Eagle]

Originally Posted by Joe Forster/STA

DABhand,

See the applications Grumpy has listed:

- V8 Supercars is by whatever game publisher (don't remember);
- DirectX is by Micro$oft;
- Gamespy is by whatever other publisher;
- Acrobat Reader is by Adobe.

These applications have been developed and published by different companies, therefore, their EULA's are definitely not the same. Actually, before installing them, you can see their own EULA's displayed and you're required to accept them, don't you?

Starforce is by Starforce Technologies or whatever. Another developer and publisher. Why isn't its own EULA displayed?

Know Punkbuster?

Every game that has PB Anticheat software included asks you if you want to install it and even displays its own EULA.
And since nearly every Server has PB enabled, I would call PB a _mandatory_ part of the software (game).

[acal3000]

Starforce is a pest I hate it

I have two games protected by sf3 one I could crack with a nocd and the other I never coudn't crack it

I hate it for this reasons:

I have 3 Drives:

My DVD ROm drive take ages to validate the original disk (more than one minute) I thinks that could be bad for the life of the drives

MY external cd-rw drive never read it it always says that I should use another drive

the only drive that can validate faster the disk on my computer its and old and crappy phillips burner

and also mentioning that when is checking the disk starforce overheats a lot my cpu

that why I hate it damn starfoce

[eskimo103]

@dabhand

You can argue semantics all you want, but when it comes to the bottom line, when the publishers deliver starforce to you, they try and conceal it. There is no declaration that the software is protected by starforce, and no specific information included about the effects of it. Under your legalese, it would be perfectly acceptable for programmers to include a virus with the game and call it "software". It also doesnt fall under the category of software utility, as starforce is hardly for the personal use of the buyer. The ability to ignore all responsibility for products via disclaimers seems to be making the world a cold and inhuman place. If you want to remain unempowered against large corporations, fine, accept your fate.

[DABhand]

Ok ill finalise on this.

It is rather simple. The protections are part of the game which you are installing.

All protections have been done the same way from securom, to ProtectCD etc.

So when your all moaning about SF why not go the full hog and bycott the other protections while your at it?

And to be honest, all ive seen with people who have problems with SF is the ones trying to run a copy of it and not the original.

Im not saying everyone who has an original should be 100% working, in the PC market nothing is 100%, with different specs of machines etc.

But ill guarantee you, people who have it illegally will be the ones with the most problems.

And again, no matter what you say, game protections are part of a game it comes packaged with it, no if's or but's or maybe's, it has been and always will be.

[Grumpy]

I too will finalize on this!
All we are trying to say is we should be made aware an intrusive Protection is being installed as well as the actual game etc. The EULA should really say something in regards to the word 'Protection'. It is the game developers right to protect thier investment but it is also the consumers right to have all the facts and info supplied to them in a non misleading manner. The word 'Software' is misleading!
Many valid points have been made in these Starforce threads, and everyone has made others more aware of what may happen to thier systems.

@ Dabhand
Thanks for your arguments, before any decent discussion (come argument) can happen thier needs to be two sides, and you supplied the other side. As much as I dont agree with your side I really can acknowledge where you are coming from. But I still dont understand why you cant see what we are trying to say?
I do hope thier are no hard feelings. You have your views and we all have ours, and everyone is entitled to thier views. (however heated we may become expressing those views!

[Alias101]

I agree 100% with both Grumpy & DABhand, both valid points. I would tend to lean towards Grumpy because as its stands, we are left open for publishers to install anything on our pc under the term "software".
My Idea is one that involves both Grumpy & DABhand taken even more time out of there life to help us all and develope the "perfect" protection between them

Alias

[prollfin]

IMHO the problem is that people just CANNOT buy enough to satisfy game companies. I don't think they need to complain.
For example, how many games are released by EA every year? I don't know, but on their website, they got like 30 games in the list of current ones (only PC platform). And that's only EA. If EA releases about 30 games a year, how many people (buyers) are needed to match their calculations? I don't want to say anything wrong, but be shure that it's a damn lot. Germany for example (which is one of the big markets for video games), 25 million copies were sold last year (only games). That means that almost one third of all germans bought a video game. But we all know that it's far from being one third of all germans playing video games (at least, I hope that all of you know that). So 25 million copies sold is everything but "not enough".
So even with companies releasing 30 games a year, 25 million copies sold should be enough to cover every game makers expenses (again, for the german market only), because with about 500 major game releases a year (not only PC, but also consoles), every single game could sell 50.000 copies. Just think about that.
I think the main problem is that software companies just don't seem to get it that you can't make 50.000 copies with ANYTHING. If a game sucks, nobody is going to buy it, no matter what efforts it took to develope it. And I don't think you can blame the customers for that.

Edit: I too won't buy any more SF protected games. I got Codename: Panzers and Trackmania here, I had problems with both of them and I won't accept some strange STARFORCE COMPANY secretly doing something to my system I would even allow Microsoft to do...