REQ: Stolen trainers to be removed from GCW

[BigBoi]

(See the premises.)

maybe because Kelsat is a ripper hackjob that has no real talent other than using the copy/paste function? just a guess.

[DABhand]

Originally Posted by BigBoi

maybe because Kelsat is a ripper hackjob that has no real talent other than using the copy/paste function? just a guess.

Now you have shown yourself to be an idiot.

Go sit in the corner and listen to daddy.

Kel is more than capable than caliber is, Kel has done options in the past that no-one else has done, so your ripper comment is stupid. Im sure caliber if he was here looking at this thread would say the same thing.

So go learn some manners, and also stop advertising CH in a stupid silly way.

[Caliber]

Originally Posted by DABhand

Now you have shown yourself to be an idiot.

Go sit in the corner and listen to daddy.

Kel is more than capable than caliber is, Kel has done options in the past that no-one else has done, so your ripper comment is stupid. Im sure caliber if he was here looking at this thread would say the same thing.

So go learn some manners, and also stop advertising CH in a stupid silly way.

is this the real DAB? are you crazy? i take offense old buddy, to your statement that Kelsat is more capable than I am. I would DEFINITELY NOT say the same thing and actually am surprised that you would write this. Have you not seen the progression of trainer releases. I have not only done OPTIONS that kelsat hasn't done, I HAVE DONE ENTIRE TRAINERS that NO-ONE has done.

As for kelsat's original trainer options, what he does is download our trainers, rip our options, and then add an option here or there because I HAVE DONE ALL THE PRELIM WORK FOR HIM. I don't always have time to add 10 options to a game right off the bat, since I am working on 10 TITLES AT ONCE plus PATCHES. If you notice I will go back for the bigger titles and add more options to them.

I have no real problems with other trainer makers and people making trainers. However Kelsat is a big exception because he takes our trainers and rips them, even the intentional coding mistakes we put in them. THis has been debated many times before, but it's the factual truth. They even admitted that they stole code within cheatengine.org forums (if the postings are still there).

If you think that Kelsat is a more capable trainer maker than myself after the hundreds and hundres of titles i have worked on, many of which were practically UNTRAINABLE (but I did it), then we have some big differences of opinion and I am somewhat confused and surprised to say the least...

it takes a little work to reverse someone else's option and then put out your trainer 5 days later with 'more' options, but don't put that sort of trainer making in the same league with people who make their own from scratch (and have it available within hours of game release).

best,
Cal

PS: thanks for the nice comments from members and if you are reading this KELSAT then enjoy your undeserved 15 mins of fame off of our back. once we figure out your account with us you can bet you won't be getting our work any more...without our trainers you are nothing... also note our subscriptions are up over 100 percent this year, LOL, even in this down economy! i hope you are enjoying all the zero dollars you are getting for your releases that you are trying to cop as your own. you enjoying the late night hours for free? have phun!

[DABhand]

Originally Posted by Caliber

is this the real DAB? are you crazy? i take offense old buddy, to your statement that Kelsat is more capable than I am. I would DEFINITELY NOT say the same thing and actually am surprised that you would write this. Have you not seen the progression of trainer releases. I have not only done OPTIONS that kelsat hasn't done, I HAVE DONE ENTIRE TRAINERS that NO-ONE has done.

As for kelsat's original trainer options, what he does is download our trainers, rip our options, and then add an option here or there because I HAVE DONE ALL THE PRELIM WORK FOR HIM. I don't always have time to add 10 options to a game right off the bat, since I am working on 10 TITLES AT ONCE plus PATCHES. If you notice I will go back for the bigger titles and add more options to them.

I have no real problems with other trainer makers and people making trainers. However Kelsat is a big exception because he takes our trainers and rips them, even the intentional coding mistakes we put in them. THis has been debated many times before, but it's the factual truth. They even admitted that they stole code within cheatengine.org forums (if the postings are still there).

If you think that Kelsat is a more capable trainer maker than myself after the hundreds and hundres of titles i have worked on, many of which were practically UNTRAINABLE (but I did it), then we have some big differences of opinion and I am somewhat confused and surprised to say the least...

it takes a little work to reverse someone else's option and then put out your trainer 5 days later with 'more' options, but don't put that sort of trainer making in the same league with people who make their own from scratch (and have it available within hours of game release).

best,
Cal

PS: thanks for the nice comments from members and if you are reading this KELSAT then enjoy your undeserved 15 mins of fame off of our back. once we figure out your account with us you can bet you won't be getting our work any more...without our trainers you are nothing... also note our subscriptions are up over 100 percent this year, LOL, even in this down economy! i hope you are enjoying all the zero dollars you are getting for your releases that you are trying to cop as your own. you enjoying the late night hours for free? have phun!

Hmmm Are you sure about this?

From what I seen, Kel managed to get a few options on TLR before you did Cal..

Either way, as you know im protective over trainer makers, and BigBoi who I think I know who it is now, who originally came in and did his thing like in Gamefaqs, so I protected.

Still if you have proof im all ears buddy.

[Caliber]

Originally Posted by asadl

Hey guys as the subject indicates itself the problem can any one help or any one else encountring this problem trainers tried but not working are:

Burnout Paradise
TC Endwar
Mirror's Edge

our CH burnout paradise trainer is free in like 3 days:

http://www.cheathappens.com/cheat_in...?titleID=14884

for TC ENDWAR if you have D2D version , it's free:

http://www.cheathappens.com/cheat_in...?titleID=14925

our Mirror's Edge trainers are all free:

http://www.cheathappens.com/cheat_in...?titleID=14499

notice also that we are supporting these titles through all the patches.

have a nice day-

best,
Cal

[DABhand]

Seems this is true, and Kelset and H4x0r are ripping injection/shifting routines from others trainers.

Empire perhaps it would be best if you removed them, like other sites have so far, It will dent GCW rep if you host them I think.

[Caliber]

Originally Posted by DABhand

Seems this is true, and Kelset and H4x0r are ripping injection/shifting routines from others trainers.

Empire perhaps it would be best if you removed them, like other sites have so far, It will dent GCW rep if you host them I think.

sorry to get so upset dab, my friend. only a few things set me off and this is just one of those topics. thanks for your response and apologies if i cut you the wrong way and went a little too far- you are one of the few unpartial people out there with no particular agenda, as well as a helpful poster on these forums....

best,
Cal

[Caliber]

here's a message i am passing along to you from Chris at CH:


starts here:
-------------

Unfortunately this is the very reason why we have stopped sending our trainers to be hosted by GCW. We do not want to be associated with a site that knowingly supports and encourages the likes of Kelsat and h4x0r that rip trainer options from us and other groups. We feel that it’s extremely disrespectful to those people that are doing all of the hard work to bring this content to your visitors every day. This list includes, but is not limited to Veggy, Brewers, sheep, Cal, DAB and others. I’ve personally spoken to several of these people (they contacted me) and it’s a real shame that GCW is quickly losing the support of the truly talented trainer makers out there in favor of rippers like Kelsat.



I’ve attempted to speak with Empire about this issue and I know that others have as well, but it always seems to fall on deaf ears. It’s very unfortunate as we have sent many a visitor this way in the past whenever a no-cd fix is needed. I’ve also done personal favors for Empire without a second thought when he’s asked. I guess the content that people like Kelsat and h4x0r provide is more important than long-term relationships that have been established with the core trainer community and the reputation of the website.

ends here:
----------------

another example of the kelsat continuation:

wheelman trainer- we had our trainer out since tuesday. he has his trainer out late yesterday with the SAME options (except he added the useless stamina option so you could RUN forever in a driving game... lol). anyways calling the option 'vehicle nightmare' instead of 'carnage mode' like in our trainer doesn't make it any less of a ripoff of our trainer. also note that he hijacked the same INCORRECT code spot for the vehicle life as our ORIGINAL trainer, which we just updated today to take in account of the missions using a different method. what a loser-

just another example for empire so he can know why he's losing ours and others support when Kelsat gets bored, or gets a job or whatever and he has no one left to supply his site with content... as for us another record month of signups! thank you members for your support of our site.

look for (unsupported) copies of our last 4 or 5 trainers when he gets an illegal scene copy of the games. nice! lol.

best,
Cal

[DABhand]

Why do I feel like a big bullseye lol :\

[Joe Forster/STA]

@Caliber: If you ask me, GCW aims - or should aim, if possible - for quality rather than quantity. (We've been running the forum with this more and more in mind for the last few years.) If you (or Chris from Cheathappens) describe the situation to me in a PM or an E-mail (preferred) and I understand them, I'll try to forward them to Empire in my own words. I assure you, he's not a malicious guy but 1) it is hard to make decisions on opinions only - yours is one, some other person's is also one - and 2) he has so damn few time that even I can hardly contact him for forum-related reasons.

[DABhand]

If my word means anything, I have checked coding between trainers and even some non-challant/useless code is identical.

If you see from start of thread, I gave Kel the benefit of the doubt, then when told he has been ripping options I looked into it myself and it is true.

Even if say caliber and no-one else does a trainer for a game for 2 weeks, guarenteed 2 weeks neither will kelsat. And now he is building a false reputation of being a trainer maker when all he is doing is ripping coding via Olly.

I can point a finger at a couple of people who did tuts on this, but ultimately they are not the ones doing it.

Its like doing some hard work and when you go get paid for doing it, someone comes along and says they did it and gets your money.

[Joe Forster/STA]

For filtering, I would like to get the exact list of trainers that are stolen or the exact list of trainer authors whose trainers are all stolen.

[Caliber]

i appreciate your responses and thoughts Joe, but that's impractical and probably impossible. We don't disassemble EVERY trainer from other trainer makers and test them all. It's only the ones that come out immediately after hours with the same exact options, then we look further and see if the code locations are the same, etc. then we might put in dummy code or have to repair and option and see that the other person's trainers have the same code as our old option. we are too busy and have too many things to contend with than to spend even more time trying to explain and prove this all over again. we are too busy to come in here and have a dossier of files, code chunks, and whatever 'evidence'. we are done with that. i would have thought that the word of ourselves, several other trainer makers (who really aren't friends of ours but still agree about kelsat), and the fact that they wrote that they were ripping our options in a posting on cheatengine.org themselves!

if you want to put kelsat's ripped work above ours then we can't participate here. i think that is what chris is trying to say up there-

also, it sounds like you are questioning the quality of our trainers? is this in comparison to kelsat's, specifically. in light of what we have been saying and what we wrote here, i am disappointed to hear that and this further erodes our relationship here.

at any rate, i don't want to turn this into something more than just a decision to cease ties due to intolerable decisions by the site owner, who has every right to make any decision he wants, just as we do for our own site and own purposes.

thanks again for at least acknowledging and replying but i don't see any progress in this and at this point i don't expect to.

best,
Cal

PS: I don't know what DAB means by having a target on him, but he has nothing to do with anything going on here, although i appreciate him looking at the trainers and etc. and making his own informed statements. I hope nobody blames or thinks of him any differently.

[DABhand]

Hey chris can I get a big hammer to smack neo7 with, why does he pick on me all the time >.<

What he did the last time got me annoyed if you remember :P

[EMPiRE]

To make things clear: I am totally against people taking/stealing code (any kind) from other people. Files from people using stolen code will not be posted @ GCW

Until now I NEVER received ANY concrete proof from the people claiming that KelSat (and h4x0r for that matter) are/were "stealing" code from any available trainers. Just making accusations that someone is doing anything is NO PROOF AT ALL for me! Therefor the files from KelSat were posted (until now that is)

I have been contacted by 2 persons last November who were claiming that KelSat was "stealing" their code, but my first impression was that at least one of them was "protecting" his own interest (obviously, nothing wrong with it, if you are thinking commercially)

I have asked KelSat directly if he was taking code from any available trainer (including the CH ones) and he was quite convincing in telling me that he was not doing so. Who to believe. I know better now...

As for h4x0r, this is the first time that I am reading that he is also taking code from existing trainers but again no proof...

Here are the email communications:

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 10-11-2008
From: Chris/CH
================================================== ==================================================

http://forum.cheatengine.org/viewtopic.php?t=312605

Some others that also realize KelSat is ripping off people’s trainers and submitting them as his own. ************* and a couple others have agreed to stop hosting his work. I wish you would consider the same.

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 13-11-2008
To: Chris/CH
================================================== ==================================================

My first reaction was to leave it be as I did not think KelSat was doing this but now Psych email me with the same thing

I have confronted KelSat with the accusations and have received a few emails from him in which he states that he has never taken code from the CH trainers

The way he is writing I tend to believe him

Most likely you are seeing similar options on both your trainers but I doubt they use the same code!

So is it possible we are accusing someone over something that is not true?

Anyway if he is lying then he is good at it and I think he won't try it again...

But keep in mind that reverse-engineering code is not illegal, I do not know if actual code was used or just the options. If it is true it is an ethical issue

And getting ripped off is a fact of live, I have to live with rippers like ************* who was a mirror site of GCW until he decided to duplicate my work (file, html: colors, table-setup, even the font he is using is the same as mine...)
I have accepted this and do not ask others not to upload their files to him... or should I ?!? It's the same thing...

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 13-11-2008
From: Psych
================================================== ==================================================

To whom it may concern, regarding gametrainers uploads.

Recently there has been several incidents of 'ripped' work, specifically
certain individuals taking it upon themselves to copy other
peoples' work and release it as their own. At present this issue, to my
knowledge, has only affected the work of CheatHappens.com, and I believe
they have already contacted you themselves about this issue.

However, we have reason to believe that it is not only their work which is
being affected, and its only a matter of time before we find out what other
work is being targetted. I can fully appreciate that it is impossible for
you to know this is going on, and you are only uploading submissions.

We can make a start however at preventing these incidents,
with your cooperation. The one individual we know about goes by the
name of 'Kelsat'. His releases always follow up to other major releases by
cheathappens within a day or so of them becoming available. We have both
analysed these trainers in detail and find them to be almost exact copies
of the work.

For now, it would be greatly appreciated if you could
remove all current submissions of Kelsat and prevent any
further additions from him. He is a ripper. Suppose these weren't just game
trainers that poke to memory, suppose they were software utilites.
Freeware or paid software it makes no different, its all the same principle. I
certainly wouldn't want to see these sorts of individuals get away with
this if they directed their attention to my own work. I can completely
understand the current predicament of cheathappens, and I concur with their
suggestion of contacting yourselves to request this.

Thanks for your time. Any consideration much appreciated!

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 13-11-2008
To: Psych
================================================== ==================================================

I have received a few emails from KelSat in which he states that he has never taken code from the CH trainers

The way he is writing I tend to believe him

Most likely Chris is seeing similar options on both their trainers but I doubt they use the same code!

So is it possible we are accusing someone over something that is not true?

Anyway if he is lying then he is good at it and I think he won't try it again...

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 13-11-2008
From: Chris/CH
================================================== ==================================================

Ripped us again. Option for option down the exact byte. Not sure why you continue to take his side.

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 14-11-2008
From: KelSat
================================================== ==================================================

I don't want the enemy. I just want to share my trainer with my skill.

Thought my skill of making trainer is not well, I can swear to god that I can make it by myself.

Like this Tomb Raider Trainer.

Why do I must copy code from CH if I have the ability?

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 14-11-2008
From: KelSat
================================================== ==================================================

I can swear to god I don't copy the code from their trainer.

It's all my trainer By myself.

You can see the trainer of Tomb_Raider_Underworld_V1.0_Demo_Plus_9_Trainer_By _KelSat

and see this web site http://www.cheathappens.com/show_bla...?titleID=13858

there is no trainer of this game in CH.

This can prove I can make the trainer by myself.

Maybe they think my trainer is cutting their client and income.

================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 14-11-2008
From: KelSat
================================================== ==================================================

Ok, let's see another trainer from

Dead Space - Mega Trainer (U.S./English)

Features: Unlimited Hull Integrity, No Turret Overheating, Unlimited Oxygen, Unlimited Health, Unlimited Ammo, Duplicate Inventory, Add Credits, Add Upgrade Nodes, Unlimited Stasis, Save/Load Position (Teleport).

and My Trainer:
Dead Space V1.0 Plus 10 Trainer By KelSat

Shift+G - Unlimited Life
Shift+H - Unlimited Ammo
Shift+T - Unlimited Stasis
Shift+Y - Unlimited Credits
Shift+N - Unlimited Nodes
Shift+V - Unlimited Items
Shift+K - One Hit Kill
Shift+O - Save Position
Shift+P - Teleport
Shift+U - Undo Teleport

Why do I have only copied some functions from ch if i copy the trainer?

and where is the function "one hit kill" in trainer of ch?

================================================== ==================================================

As you can read they are just ACCUSATIONS and nothing more, no proof nothing...

Also some people think there is some exclusivity in the files posted @ GCW, I can tell you THERE IS NONE, all kinds of trainers will be posted I do not really care if it is professionally done or done my an amateur, even a +1 PROMO Trainer is a trainer for me! It has also nothing to do with quality over quantity as everything is posted... If a trainer works then great if it does not then so be it and try another trainer.

If people are thinking that a boycott (or any other crap) will make me think differently than think again, IT WILL NOT (don't make me laugh)

The only thing that will make me think differently is providing PROOF someone is stealing code

People like KelSat will always exist, if he stops releasing his trainer thru his own website then someone else will be doing so. IT IS A FACT OF LIFE, learn to live with it!

For now KelSat's trainers will not be posted anymore as he lied to me about stealing the code