[AstralWanderer]

Originally Posted by wolfsrain

Then why don't use the same anger on the ATARI forums in the NWN section? Remember their premium modules?

Given the careful attention and willingness to listen shown by Atari on their ToEE forum, I suspect you'd make more impact throwing a whoopee cushion at a Nolan Bushnell poster.

I've not purchased a NWN premium module myself (due solely to the activation) and did post in the Bioware forum about it (it seems that every 3rd or 4th thread in their Premium Module section is about activation problems!) but aside from praying for an early bankruptcy for Atari (so someone competent can take over the D&D licence), I'm sticking with the boycott.

I'm not angry, since online activation has (like Starforce) saved me money. However I do think it's important that gamers take the time to understand the problems inherent in any such DRM and be prepared to boycott games using it - it is only through lower sales (and public protest) that publishers will "get the message" as happened with Starforce. Otherwise they will ramp up the measures further (whatever they do won't "kill" piracy completely so they'll always keep escalating).

Originally Posted by DABhand

Answers inside quote

As an aside, please don't make a habit of this - it makes it harder for others to quote the relevant parts of your posts.

Originally Posted by DABhand

Any game that ive seen that requires activation online has usually got a phone option.

Please provide some examples where a publisher has given a phone number specifically for activation then (at best, all I've seen is an email option). The only example I know of is Microsoft's Windows Activation and I wouldn't consider that a game.

Originally Posted by DABhand

...if none the box for the software would say "INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED"

And how does this allow someone to activate if they wish to keep their gaming PC offline?

Originally Posted by DABhand

Errr how cant they activate, if they have access they can activate. And if not as said already they have a phone option

The point I was making is that there are people who don't have fixed line Internet access and never will due to either living/working in restricted areas (e.g. military barracks) or having to constantly be on the move (e.g. a mobile crane operator). At best, online access would be via a local library which would be totally useless for activation purposes. And with mobile phones, Internet access may be charged at extortionate rates (for example, the mobile network I am with charges about US$4/MB sent - a bargain compared to their previous US$10/MB rate).

Originally Posted by DABhand

Permabanning for what? Bot use?

The reason: "Credit charge chargeback" was stated 6 words before your reply. Reading a post before hitting Reply might help avoid missing the obvious...

Originally Posted by DABhand

This is obviously talk you have read about and seen rumours about, if any game/software is taking information other than information about the game it is illegal for them to do so and they are monitored alot

No, it isn't talk - it is a simple (and pretty darn obvious) observation. Publishers will log the IP address used for each activation (see Stardock's activation page linked above) and in many cases, geolocation can be used to provide an approximate physical address. If you have something that activates daily (as Windows Genuine Advantage did) on a laptop you carry with you, it should be pretty clear that this would provide a reasonable record of your whereabouts.

And it is not illegal for companies to collect data in most jurisdictions either. In many cases, they don't even need to make it clear in their EULA. And aside from technically minded customers, I very much doubt anyone is monitoring them - law enforcement in particular has far bigger things to worry about.

Originally Posted by DABhand

If they do fold/bankrupt etc then they have to supply a way for you to play your software in the future

And which land of legal milk and honey do you live in where such a provision exists? If a company goes bankrupt, their only obligation is to their creditors (and staff, depending on legislation). They have none to their customers - indeed, for USians, the beloved DMCA would likely prevent a developer from releasing an activation-removal patch since they would need the permission of the now-bankrupt publisher (who almost certainly couldn't give a fig about past customers).

Originally Posted by wolfsrain

Mass Effect uses SecuROM and requires an online activation for the first time that you play it.

That's discussed in some detail here. I was going to consider buying that but now I can forget it.

Originally Posted by acal3000

Also I have always hated Be On Line to play Offline (was one of the things i hated about HL2 some years back)

The thing here is games publishers couldn't care less whether you hate their systems or not unless it stops you buying their games. If you've purchased, then you're a happy customer as far as their balance sheets go and probably ripe for a little more squeezing next time. I've not bought HL2 myself and don't intend to - instead I focus on companies that provide games free of any activation or CD checks at all (recent examples being Space Emipres V from Malfador/Strategy First and Dominions 3 from IllWinter/Shrapnel). This is why I get annoyed about Stardock - they made a big deal about the lack of CD-checks on GalCiv2 and then brought in online activation. In my eyes that made it a "bait and switch".