WTF!?? Jane's Addiction - Strays Copy Protection
 

Recently purchased the new Jane's Addiction cd and it has copy protection on it :( I was using ClonyXL to try to determine what protection it has on it, ClonyXL says its Undetermined, one version of ClonyXXL says its Cactus 2, another more recent version says its KeyToAudio.

Which one is right!!??

Has anyone ripped this disc? if so how did they do it. I was looking at the TOC for this cd and it seems to be always changing. I'll insert the cd one time and the TOC will be 5 audio and 6 data tracks, and other times it will be 10 audio and 2 data tracks.

WTF is going on here? :confused:

Colin Fox

Yeah it does have copy protection...have you attempted to rip the cd yet...

i've only rip one track "Just Because" and it ripped fine

Colin,

both CDS100/200 and Key2Audio both have multiple sessions (data & audio). However, there is one way of finding out (though I would tend to trust the more recent version of CLonyX ;) )

Indeed the data part of Key2Audio CDs, unlike those protected with Cactus, always has Bad Sectors. ClonyX has an option to scan for such read errors, and so can Nero's (free) CDspeed tool ('scandisk' test with 'surface scan' option). Check it out: if the CD has such read errors, then it's Key2Audio.

So how do I rip it?
 

Okay, but how do I go about ripping the tracks? :confused:
I've tried cloneCD but when I insert the cd and it says 5 audio tracks and 6 data tracks thats how cloneCD rips it. Tried blindwrite suite and it does sh*t all.

I just want to play this awesome cd at work.

Stupid RIAA Mother@!!#@$#%@^ers!!

Colin Fox

O O O easy now man & watch yer language :mad: this ain't gonna change anything, besides audio CDs are very sensitive to that ye know.. :D

1) First of all, did U run a bad sector scan (with ClonyX or CDspeed), and what wuz the protection - Cactus or Key2Audio?

2) Second, U're mixing up copying and ripping: as far as I know to rip an audio CD is to extract all its AUDIO tracks into .wav files - therefore this is usually more difficult than jus' making a 1:1 backup. So is it just a copy you want or R U seeking 2 rip the music onto your hard drive?

My guess is, since you're using CloneCD then your goal is to simply make a 1:1 copy of the CD. If so then:

3) this depends on your burner - and especially its reading capabilities. What reader and burner R U using? Is the firmware up to date?

Normally both CloneCD AND Blindwrite can pull this off easily provided the reader/burner can handle it.

Any ClonyX version prior to 2.0.0.6 also provides the appropriate CloneCD settings, however there can be a mistake in what it suggests - concerning Key2Audio 4 example, you must NOT tick the 'Only read first session' box - this applies to Cactus as well, and most protected audio CDs in general.

If it's Key2Audio, make sure U tick the 'Don't repair subchannel data' box, as ClonyX advises. This is not needed with Cactus.

Okay, I was going to tell you exactly what I have but the oddest thing happened. I ran clonyXXL and put in the cd hit scan and waited... it came up as CD-Extra! WTF? so I scanned it again and it still came up as CD-Extra. I thought to myself this had to be wrong, so I looked at the cd-info, sure enough 11 audio tracks and 1 data track!

FINALLY it showed the cd as it's supposed to be!

So I ripped it using CloneCD and every thing was perfect...or so I thought. Which brings me to my next question...

The CD ripped fine with the exception of the first track. Why is it I only get the last minute or so of the first track when every other one copied perfectly?

Colin Fox

Attacks of the Clonys
 

Wait one - something wrong here

In the first post U tell us that an old version of Clony said it wuz Cactus, a newer one returned 'Key2Audio' and now U say it's 'CD Extra'? :confused: U got 3 versions of Clony or something??

If so then U must be ALSO using Clony 2.0.0.6 (as I advised, for profiling CloneCD). This very old version sometimes mixes up CDextra and Key2Audio, which again confirms that this could be K2A protection.

But AGAIN there's little I can forward since U STILL haven't cleared up these (VERY important) details:

- did U run a bad sector (read error) checkup using Clony or CDspeed to confirm U were indeed dealing with Key2Audio?

- what read/write settings did U use 4 CloneCD?

- what devices are ye using for reading and burning the CD?

- Is the data track before or after the audio tracks? When U say the first track went wrong do U mean the data track or the first
audio track?

U mean U copied it! I explained the difference in my previous post... :mad:

Your success in backing up the CD depends heavily on the device used for burning, and especially that used for READING (the reading ability is also very important when ripping the audio tracks, obviously ;) ). It's a good idea to have their firmwares constantly updated.

Okay, first things first.

1) Using a Pioneer DVD Drive forget which model number but its brand new.

2) Just ran a bad sector scan using ClonyXXL and there are read errors and it froze up my system before I could look to see what they were...17 errors I think.

3) To copy this time I used the default audio settings for CloneCD.

4) The data track(s) are after the audio tracks.

5) Using ClonyXXL 2.0.0.6

Now, as I said before the majority of the time ClonyXXL identifies the CD as Key 2 Audio and the CD TOC always changes, I dont know why it just does, this time however it identified it as CD Extra.

On the CD there is supposed to be 11 Audio tracks and 1 Data track but it keeps changing. By luck I got that when I copied the CD this latest time. The only problem being the first song on the CD; instead of getting the full track I got the last minute or so, all the rest are perfect.

What is going on here?

Key2Success
 

Protection IS Key2Audio - should seem obvious by now, but just stating it 1 more time 2 make sure U get it.. :D

Your backup is not 1:1 and this definitely is due to failed reading.

U must be having the Pioneer 106S model or something. A good DVD reader, but has a VERY short lifespan, and is not recommended for CloneCD (cannot read full 96 bytes of subchannel data, and cannot rip Key2Audio v3 - may still copy it, though...)

I told U in the previous post NOT to use default CloneCD settings, but recommended CLONYX settings for Key2Audio instead :mad: . However as I also said : in CloneCD's read options, the 'only read first session' box must NOT be ticked.

Should the backup fail (most probably due to incorrect reading) I suggest U try at first updating the Pioneer's firmware here, and if this still doesn't work, then read with the burner instead - but once again this depends on the burner brand & firmware version.

Okies, did it like you said, still missing the first track tho, I have the last minute or so of it that's all.

How do you recommend I get this track short of downloading it?

Oh and for some reason my burner will not read the original cd when I put it in...oh well.

Thank you for being so helpfull as well as patient.

Colin Fox

Like I said, forget about ripping the CD (ie. extracting the audio tracks onto .wav files on your hard drive). Just try copying the CD as a whole - that is, making a 1:1 copy.

But I guess U understood what I said and DID try to make a backup, and it failed.

It is normal for Windows+CD reader/burner not to read the CD (the protection wuz designed to that effect).

HOWEVER this doesn't mean you can't copy (or even rip!) the CD - special software such as CloneCD is required, as well as an appropriate CD reading unit.

So when running CloneCD use the burner for the reading part.

-> what burner are U using?

Is firmware up to date? ;)

Well, the front of the burner says HP CD-Writer Plus, but the actual drivers say it's a Mitsumi CR-48X5TE...

Just updated the Firmware for this no-longer supported piece of junk.

Gonna try copying it tonight.

I have to buy a new burner.

Colin Fox.

Mitsumi CR-48X5TE - not such a bad drive when it comes to CloneCD compatibility...in theory at least. If you read here it says this old timer can even read & write the full 96 bytes of subchannel data! One major drawback is the lack of buffer-underrun prevention -> this means: BURN AT VERY LOW SPEEDS! (4x or 8x max).

Mitsumis are also known for their exceptionnal error-skip speeds (useful with data CD protections like 'Laserlock' or 'Ring Protech'), however there's nothing special about error-handling quality.

Getting a new burner depends on what U intend to do with it.

- For 1:1 backups of very recent versions of Safedisk 2, go 4 the most recent Liteons.

- For Securom 4.8+, choose the Plextor (the PREMIUM only!), at least for the burning part.

- For reading protected audio CDs, either a very recent Liteon, or any Plextor (new or old) will do.

Other brands have their qualities, I just don't know much about them. Check out cdrlabs.com for reviews of most recent CD/DVD burners.

Yeah, she wont read it at all. Oh well.

Any suggestions on how else to get the missing first track?...short of downloading it that is.

Its about time for a new burner soon anyways, just have to scrounge up the money.

Thanks for your help!

Colin Fox

déjà vu..
 

hmm.. ye already asked this questions 2 posts ago, comrade :D

This contradicts your previous statement - if the limitation comes from the hardware (the reader) then no software in the universe can mend it.

However, there might STILL B 1 more chance (never give up, they say):

Your readers/burners may not be able to read the CD, but perhaps U could try "modifying" the CD. Ever heard of good ole' black marker trick? Works with protections such as Cactus and even Key2Audio, up to version 3. There was a thread posted in this very section of the forum (check out, a few dozen threads ago). I'm not sure how this is exactly carried out as I've never needed it myself, but from what I gather the method works by hiding "bad data" from the reader, which skips it and heads directly to the audio track, making it possible to copy the CD and even rip its audio tracks. Follow this link for a very serious review about the trick :D :D
(and never mind that 'DMCA law' bullsh*t - people are allowed by law 2 make 1:1 backups of their original CDs).


VERY IMPORTANT:

!!! ONLY USE A NON-WATERPROOF MARKER !!!

Use the marker trick and then copy the disc (don't forget subchannel reading). The copied disk won't be 1:1 since it will be an unprotected audio CD - so much the better, making a future "backup from the backup" will be only easier as the marker trick won't be needed 4 the "original" backup...


-> if you're seeking an inexpensive but robust & efficient burner, go 4 a recent Liteon - these are dirt-cheap yet sturdy and very good at defeating data/audio protection schemes. Very high quality chipsets, only the firmware leaves to be desired...so remember to regularly update it ;)