(See the original thread for reference.)

forum rule #1 has nothing to do with this
and EA charges $10-$15 for a replacement disk... witch we do not even need NOR we require to do in any country by law

no one CAN NOT play 2142 online ranked with out a valid CD-KEY,
and the cracked versions do not need a DVD or an image EVER.
and i'm sure as senior member your well aware of this

i ALWAYS watch what i post... if you want to include not even mentioning certain words i think it would be fair to mention that in rule #1, as it is a bit extreme and unusual, BUT if it would be at least mentioned i would have avoided mentioning names

or if you meant that the one version that is really wrz is USELESS - normally negative comments are allowed about such things - but if that was the reason then i apologize - because that was "discussing"-it just in a negative way

again I’m not criticizing deleting the name or the image, but the comment about rule #1 as i always hold my self in the borders of rules so the boards wont get in trouble

it was not fair comment IMO

what we discussed here IS how to have a LEGAL backup of our 2142, so far i know there are LAWS in any country this game is distributed that one can have at least 1 backup... how you create that backup is irrelevant (even if its downloading)... and again as a senior member you well aware that this image can only used in connection with a legal cd-key

the law DO NOT require us to get a replacement DVD from the manufacturer, in fact its quite the opposite we are protected by law against such things

i don’t even understand why such game makers even require a DVD check, steam already stopped doing that years ago (I already wrote EA 2x about how angry I’m about this)

2142 don’t even have a single player option unless you’re online and HAVE a cd-key, (even if you call that single player mode) : )

and no mater where you buy the game (outside ea downloader) EA gets exactly the same amount, the difference is distribution, shipping packaging and the HUGE profit of computer stores + sales tax

plus there are other reasons and NON of them are illegal
-DVD drive bad/incompatible
-disk broken
-inconvenience having to change disk
-playing in a computer where dvd is not installable (company pc/laptop/no room in pc/…)

Shocked!?
 

Sorry if having that link was inappropriate, however this is not a pirating motive. This is for having a playable backup on your pc, for the reasons that were mentioned above. I do not think this is against the rules. Sorry if I'm wrong and if that is the case I won't contribute that type of information anymore.

Matt

OHHH the #1 rule remark was for you !

then my appologies to Joe Forster/STA
my bad : )

Just to clear things up: according to the forum rules, you need to have a working, original, legally purchased copy of the game to be eligible for support on this forum. (Watch the "working" word, too. This has nothing to do with warez...) Yes, this may be a bit too much but we've seen way to many "interesting stories" in the past to be strict about it! It is explicitly written in the forum rules that, if you don't have a working copy, you need to get a replacement (before discussing things).

@6FiRE9 & siiix
Just to clarify things a bit more.
I was the one who removed the links and names.
Torrent sites are not to be posted here, either are the names of warez torrents!
As Joe has already said (and he is a lot more than just a 'Senior Member', he is actually a Moderator here) we had to make the rules very scrict as people join up and ask the most rediculous questions.
I think you will both find the EULA may say "You are entitled to create one backup of your game" (or words similiar to that) but it definately does not say "You can download someone else's copy to use as a backup". ;)

@siiix
These are the type of lame excuses we always get!
If you have a bad DVD Drive then how do you expect to install it let alone play it?
If your disc is broken then most game publishers will replace the disc ,for a small fee, when you provide proof of purchase, or in some cases send them the broken disc.
Inconvenience in changing discs is not really a valid reason!
And again if you cant install a DVD into a computer then how are you going to play it? The game publishers wont make it easy for you to play without the disc, otherwise its to easy for you to share the game with friends etc.
You have heard of Piracy and Protections? Havent you?

i would definitely go to court and i'm very positive i would EASY win the case, it they try to split hairs that way

because HOW i make a backup is up to me as long as i paid for the game... i could go more in detail how they would not have the slightest chance of winning even if they hire the best layer money can get.. it would be to long

simply i can tell you thins because i did not used a dvd for bf2 or 2142 (until recently for 2142) although i do purchases 3 copies of bf2 and 2 copies of 2142

I install the game from any folder, installation won’t ask for a DVD << WITH A LEGAL CD-KEY of course
then when I start the game I have to use one of several methods to get around this “bug” with the DVD insertion

$10-$15 is NOT a small fee, its a rip of, i pay for BF2 and SF and 2142 just slightly more then $15 each, and ANYONE can do that if you buy from the right dealer (for EA is the same no mater I buy if you do not buy directly from them, if you get it at computer store for $56.50 or in a poor country for $18 = EA gets the same exact amount in the end)

further more as i buy ALL my games from a Asian dealer i do not have a DVD SIMPLY because i will not make the post office rich to pay for shipping, nor the government with sales tax(or vat) << and this is my law given right !!!!

i understand you have money to throw around but i don’t, and its my legal right to purchase the game(s) where ever i chose
the CD-key is registered BY EA to my name and address, so if they like to take me on in the backup issue – bring it on !
i guess you do not own any of bf2 or 2142, i suggest you as one of the moderators you inform your self a bit better

what you suggest is simply put IMPOSSIBLE (for bf2, sf, 2142 - ESPECIALY 2142) again it would take long to explain the technical reasons, but trust me the software it self is COMPLETELY WORTHLESS with out the cd-key, 2142 don’t even have a single player option with out being online

there is no way you can get online unless you like a top hacker and rewrite the software or use additional software > and even then your having an extremely limited gaming experience, and again I’m not a complete zero in programming >> so DVD image it self is nothing

in 2142 it wont even help to have a stolen cd-key, it is completely protected by better protection then most of my several bank accounts (NOT exaggerated in the slightest)

in simple terms the 2142 software is just about useful the WOW software with out the online authorization
the DVD thing is a hit/spit in the face from EA at best, but has nothing to do with copy protection
(as I said I contacted EA directly about this issue with my complain several times, NOT anonym!!)

now on the issue:
my apologies,
BUT please be clearer in the text rule #1, I respect board rules if they clear
mentioning a just name is most of the time not a problem,
the reason this is no problem on most boards is this(I illustrate with the following):
taking/having drugs is illegal, selling them is illegal, giving them away is illegal, BUT talking about them is not! until positive association can be done (like a link)

and URL’s/LINK's I would never post of course

@siiix: The answer is very simple: The board rules are generally NOT for discussion! Yes, we cannot test how each game works - as we don't have all of them and especially don't even have time to play with all of them! - but there aren't many exceptions to the general usage of games anyway.

But, sorry, I don't understand what you're talking about this particular game. (I've had none of the Battlefield series; not interested.) If you can describe to me in a short and clean PM or E-mail (CC to Grumpy, too!) why games similar to this one cannot be covered with the current forum rules then we can include them as a special group. However, for only a single game, exceptions will obviously not be made.

Just as a quick follow up on siix's post. Playing BF 2142 without a purchased key that belongs to you is not possible. Downloading pirated copies of this game to play is completely useless unless you do infact own this game. I appologise for naming a torrent site in my post, I agree this may have been a "no-no" but believe me this would only help people who own the game anyway. With BF2 which I also own, you could download and play on cracked servers or in single player mode. With 2142 these are also not possible, from what I understand. I just figured that a forum should be a free speech environment and I would try to help people that obviously must own the game like myself.

Matt

No you cant.

You can make a backup of the media you bought, not an image of someone elses media.

And you would NOT win the case. As you have essentially a backup of someone elses media you did not have the right to. Actually they would laugh at you to be honest.

They wouldnt need a lawyer either, they could easily represent themselves.

I ask a buddy of mine who's studying law and the transfer of archival copies between one licensee to another licensee provided the original licensee made a legal copy is perfectly legal. The physical dvd means little. Its the license that you bought. There's also something in the copyright act which limits copyright owners first sale something blah blah which denies them the sole right to distribution.

oh yeah forgot to mention that regardless of whether the original copyright owner mentions in the license agreement that you cannot make a backup copy, you can make a backup copy. Basically the copyright act voids that point.

@siiix
Actually I do own BF2 and play it often, without the need for the DVD in the drive!
Believe me I am very well informed. ;)

The rest of your post is just laughable! It just shows how ill-informed and niave you really are!

trust me i'm not... i battle idiot people and corporations for many many years, although i have no legal-school background i have extensive experience (in and out of courts) and research behind me

as well long time ago i worked for activision/novotrade as game programmer.. so in maters coding i do have some experience behind me as well

plus some of my old friends where/are hackers, and not even bad ones as well, several of them where on TV in several countries because they activities

plus currently I live in germany as you might know they aggressively cracking down on filesharing for the last few months, there is not a day going by where I don’t have to work with several (2) of my friends that got cut by the traps

there is not the slightest thing naïve about me
so I’m able to say I know with certainty (at least in U.S. and germany) that with the above method of backup I’m right and if something would posses EA/contractor and go ahead and file this in court there is no way in hell they have a chance to win, although obviously it would never come to that because they know this as well.. and this is not excitement talking but experience and 100’s of hours of research

anyhow I think we over talked this subject already, I just had to respond to the “naïve” comment

@siiix: You still haven't sent me an explanation, although I asked you to do so. I have to stress again that the forum rules are not for discussion so, please, don't "spoil" this thread with off-topic posts. Thank you!

Sorry you misunderstood me, about #1
i tried to suggest to EXTEND your rule #1 somehow that we cant even mention such things, because most boards at least you can talk about it in the way I did – as a reference point or “example of”
As talking about it is not illegal in any country in that form
in my case i mentioned a NAME but did not even said that has anything to do with piracy – in such way it cant establish legally a link to illegal activity, in fact deleting they 2 deferent NAMES in my post was an assumption (knowledge) I refered to a pirate group and not just the guy living next door or a username on this board.
such things are normally no problem so i assumed its ok, as RIGHT NOW it is not specifically forbidden in rule #1

I’m not discussing rules, I just suggested being clearer in the text, NOT to make it any less strict or so
In other words your #1.2 do not sound that strict to me reading it, so I followed it to my best understanding
But maybe its just me in the way I understand the text in #1.2
Was just some info to you = no discussion

@siiix
We are not 'most boards'!

We have rules here and they must be obeyed, its as simple as that.
Just like different families may have different rules for their own households.
I dont care what is law in whatever country! Fileforums is accessable in every country just like any other site. So we have 'our' rules for every country. Those who use this site agree, when joining, to abide by 'our' rules.

Rule #1 states: "Do not discuss warez!"

And that means no warez groups, no warez files, and no warez sites!
They all fit in the 'Do not discuss warez!' category!

And you mentioned 2 warez files in your post!
No if's or but's about it.

Surely you, with your wealth of experience and knowledge, would have known and understood that!? ;)

maybe me and you Grumpy have a communication problem,
what you write have very little to no relevance to what I write

I said that forum RULE #1.2 is NOT strict enough NOR is it clearly state what you actually want,
I for example feel I FULLY obeyed the rule

so again this is a point of opinion and assumption,
and I can only say this because lack of clearness/detail in that section of rule,
of course you have the right to remove on your board what ever you like
it was just a friendly tip from me that Rule #1 states: "Do not discuss warez!" you might like to be a bit more specific or strict

that you have to explain now is proof enough that you know what I’m talking about
you wrote:
”And that means no warez groups, no warez files, and no warez sites!”
and still I think this is not detailed enough, but it would help

to be honest reading that rule the 1st time I got the opinion/feeling that this is a board that do not care so much about enforcing this, the section is mostly getting in to not to annoy you guys then the actual warez issue, you guys would have a lot less to moderating to do if you fix #1.2

anyhow, there is no point of continuing talking about this, I think we all clear about each other opinions now, or should be
if you disagree just ignore my tip/suggestion, I just wanted to help

It doesnt matter if the rules are rewritten or not.

People still wont read them and still post away.

And to be honest you cant come along one day and try to get rules changed just because they didnt suit yourself. Doesnt work like that at all.

And I question your knowledge of what goes on.


Hackers and Crackers are different types. People removing protections are crackers, people who break into systems and do what they do are hackers.


And again you can make a backup of YOUR media if the permission is given, what you can NOT do is download media different ways from other people or receive a burned backup of someone elses media it is Illegal, no matter what peoples' Lawyer friends may say.

There is a selected few cases where games can be given out freely, mostly these are MMORPG's for example World of Warcraft, which Blizzard gives you the right to allow to give a friend a backup of your media so they can use a Trial Key.

#1 they fit me very well, i just said they not clear, and so i had the feeling this board is WAY les strict then they owners actually attended

#2 your wrong, you DO NOT need permission, with is the same law in all strict countries
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html

in fact EVEN if the digital medias T&C states that your not allowed to make a backup you are by law, the global copyright laws are above the T&C, there are several precedence cases like that you can read up on (just search)

as the other guy above also stated the license is extended to your backup
I add to this that so long as you hold the license the backup is still covered even if the original media or data is lost

what is confusing to some guys: IF you PAY for a pirated/illegal “backup” copy then even if you own a license you commit a crime

plus I do have practical experience in the matter, as might you noticed I’m no brave citizen ; )

I might like to add that #1 and #2 are not connected topics !!! one has nothing to do with the other

Lets see shall we what they say here.


Can I backup my computer software?
Yes, under certain conditions as provided by section 117 of the Copyright Act. Although the precise term used under section 117 is “archival” copy, not “backup” copy, these terms today are used interchangeably. This privilege extends only to computer programs and not to other types of works.

Under section 117, you or someone you authorize may make a copy of an original computer program if:

1. the new copy is being made for archival (i.e., backup) purposes only;

2. you are the legal owner of the copy; and

3. any copy made for archival purposes is either destroyed, or transferred with the original copy, once the original copy is sold, given away, or otherwise transferred.

4. You are not permitted under section 117 to make a backup copy of other material on a computer's hard drive, such as other copyrighted works that have been downloaded (e.g., music, films).

It is also important to check the terms of sale or license agreement of the original copy of software in case any special conditions have been put in place by the copyright owner that might affect your ability or right under section 117 to make a backup copy. There is no other provision in the Copyright Act that specifically authorizes the making of backup copies of works other than computer programs even if those works are distributed as digital copies.




Not lets see a key word you neglected to read in there, there word being "authorised", as in given permission. Did you miss that word.

EDIT: You can only authorise this if you are the legally binding owner of the data, which is subject to the developer/publisher. Which you are not.

Also.

"2. you are the legal owner of the copy;"

If you download an image you are NOT the legal owner of that copy. Again your wrong on the part of downloading games is legal as a copy purpose. This basically states as I have said, you can only backup/copy YOUR original and no one elses.

And just to reconfirm this, you missed out on this part also

"Is it legal to download works from peer-to-peer networks and if not, what is the penalty for doing so?
Uploading or downloading works protected by copyright without the authority of the copyright owner is an infringement of the copyright owner's exclusive rights of reproduction and/or distribution. Anyone found to have infringed a copyrighted work may be liable for statutory damages up to $30,000 for each work infringed and, if willful infringement is proven by the copyright owner, that amount may be increased up to $150,000 for each work infringed. In addition, an infringer of a work may also be liable for the attorney's fees incurred by the copyright owner to enforce his or her rights.
Whether or not a particular work is being made available under the authority of the copyright owner is a question of fact. But since any original work of authorship fixed in a tangible medium (including a computer file) is protected by federal copyright law upon creation, in the absence of clear information to the contrary, most works may be assumed to be protected by federal copyright law.
Since the files distributed over peer-to-peer networks are primarily copyrighted works, there is a risk of liability for downloading material from these networks. To avoid these risks, there are currently many "authorized" services on the Internet that allow consumers to purchase copyrighted works online, whether music, ebooks, or motion pictures. By purchasing works through authorized services, consumers can avoid the risks of infringement liability and can limit their exposure to other potential risks, e.g., viruses, unexpected material, or spyware."


See that word Authority again in that last quote, again only IF and only WHEN the owners of the software have given you permission to distribute software then you can, but they dont.

Also you fail to realise that you only have the right to play what is on that media, you own the CD or DVD but you do NOT own the content.

So again if you didnt get permission to make a backup then you cant. No if's or but's about it.

And btw US law isnt Global.

@siiix
Everything Dabhand has said in the above post is correct.
Sorry to say but the article you linked to just contradicts everything you have previously said!

Apart from the very important parts Dab pointed out this section is also very important:
It does not matter if they are talking about 'buying', it is still the same if you download it for free! You would be stealing from someone who has not authorized the copy!

I have a question for you, does your lawyer friend actually make any money!?

@ siiix, ich bin kein poster sondern nur leser dieses boards, aber jetzt muss ich mal was posten, sonst geht's mir weiter schlecht

merkst du nicht wie dabhand grumpy + joeforster dich veräppeln und aufziehen

das sollte unter deiner würde sein. ich würde nicht weiter hier auf irgendetwas eingehen, denn diese leute haben das gewisse brett vorm kopf

ich liebe streitgespräche , fruchten sie aber nicht und schalten sich daraufhin immer weitere frontmacher dazu mit nicht zugänglichen argumenten, die sie hinter stereotypischen, schlecht formulierten aussagen verstecken, vergeht mir schlicht die list und lust

ich empfehle daher, zieh dich zurück ich geb dir ja recht!

Another one who did not read the board rules.
FileForums is an english-only forum !!!

With all these discussions, we already forgot the most important rule of the boards rules: RULE #11 The moderators are ALWAYS right!

KeelMan says that we're hiding ourselves behind stereotypes etc. and suggests that siiix draws himself back. I don't understand much more of his post, though, and he seems to have missed DABhand from the list... ;)

Nahhh I was in there.


Seems he is accusing us 3 of supposedly "taking the piss"


To each their own I guess.

free translation of KeelMan's post:

"@siix: i'm not a post-writer, i'm only a post-reader here on FF, but now i need to post something, before i become ill.

You don't recognize that DABhand, Grumpy and JoeForster makes ridiculous of you.
This should be under your proud. I wouldn't post anything again in this thread, because this people have a board before the head.

I love heavy discussions, but if them don't come to an end, and such people don't want to understand your arguments and hide himself behind stereotype and bad formulate states, then i don't have the desire for this.

I recommend to you, don't post again in this thread and give yourself you're right."

This is a situation what we Hungarians call "milling in two mills" (neither party is really listening to the other in an argument). From the law's point of view, siiix may be right (don't wanna start discussing it again); however, this board may be stricter (in some aspects), to defend itself.

And I am STILL waiting for a short and more-to-the-point explanation from him about what his problem with the forum rules really is. As there have been days already without him giving a simple answer to my simple question - although the question has been asked multiple times and he has been around -, it is me who starts wondering that, perhaps, he only wants to show off with his legal knowledge here. Yes, it's very interesting but not very on-topic here...

This whole discussion got out of hand when siiix took offense to me deleting/editing the names of 2 warez files he posted!
He says he has used these files!
He actually should have been banned right away for using warez!
But I let him speak, even though our forum rules say No Warez!

Siiix is only trying to be a smartass by insisting it is ok by law to use a downloaded game as a backup and this is the part where he is totally wrong:
Downloading games is against the law, doesnt matter if you pay for it or get it for free, it is still against the law. That is black and white!

I dont care if people think I am ridiculing him. I dont mind telling him how it is!
I have not yet seen one bit of evidence to say it is ok? Yet siiix himself provided the legal document which 'ridicules' his whole argument.
No where in that document does it say 'it is ok to download a game'!! ;)

Good, then we won't have to spend time with changing the forum rules, after all... :D

:D:cool:

This post pretty much sums it up. Those who use this site agreed, when joining, to abide by our rules. No matter how you sugar coat it Rule #1 is clear, No discussion of warez is allowed. If you want to argue your point to EA or any other game developer then so be it but the forum rules are not going to bend to your needs, NTM. they are not open for discussion or debate. The Moderators enforce the rules set by the Administrator, its that simple and we are not going to argue with you guys about it.
If you cant abide to these rules then i suggest you leave!