Interesting news from MS
 

I was reading an article where MS stated the revenue from there XBox division has increased 23% or something to that fact, and was reading where Sony has dropped 93%

Does anyone think that MS can realistically become the number 1 console this time around ?? Pretty interesting development regardless. I believe we will see three console producers and they will all stay around. I can't see any of them drop out as they are doing well. Maby the experts were wrong maby there is room for three.


And lastly whats with this Phantom console anyone hear about this console from what I read some pretty interesting ideas if it works.

Nah Sony will always be on top. Because of all the games.

I still think the X is a cool console though.




Tyler!

Sony sales dropped a liitle less than 1/3. Xbox sales increased 25% rouphly. Put the 2 together and the reason sony's sales dropped was because of the xbox.

And to think the xbox will even sell half as much as sony's ps2 (worldly) is very unrealistic. But, it just shows that the xbox isn't as crappy as people think. besides, Xbix Live contributes to the sales greatly.

Phantom Console = crap.

It's is a PC game machine. I mean it plays PC games. If you already have a PC, then you don't need to buy that phantom crap. Yes, crap. You pay a subscription fee to play the thing at all. You download games onto the console instead of going out and just buying them. But, they are pc games, so if you want to go out and buy em, you still can. You can look at the details on what it does at their site. But it is no way in hell gonna compete with these consoles. It says it has 1000 games for it already. Well... Have yo uever seen those hand held games that have like 100 games on it (old ones), but costs like 15 dollars. Im thinking there is a similarity between them. Btw, the phantam is really poo.

in my opinion xbox rocks, the controller, the speed, the graphics and the flexibility

but ps2 will always win caz of the great games

I would say thats about 50% of it. The other 50% is due to its vast quantity of games over the XBox and the GameCube. I think the XBox has way more going for it over the PS2 and the GameCube.

I use to have a lot of games for my PS2. I’ve sold all but two. GTA3 and GTA VC. And when those get ported to the XBox my PS2 and I are going our separate ways. I’ve never really liked the Play Station from the start. And I only got a PS2 to play games I couldn’t get on my PC.

As oddly as it sounds Xbox really isn't gonna topple Sony now or in the next gen console time span either.the big M$ isn't gonna topple Sony for years to come even if. Why? Simple...Sony has about three things that are gonna keep it on top for now.

1) First is the sheer amount of games that are made for everybody. Games like Jak and Dexter and Ratchet and Clank are the kind of platformers that appeal to ALL ages from 20 somethings to kids. That is a huge advantage. It makes the system appealt to people of all ages and with it's backward compatiblity makes the volume of great games huge. Same will go for the Ps3 which will be compatible with both PS1 and PS2 games, making Ps3 have one of the largest general media liberies of games ever.

2)Second, a lot more video game companies (mainly japanese development houses mind you but still) seem to put more faith behind the Sony name then the MS one. Example: Capcom gave Dino Crisis III (which was crap) to Xbox while Devil may Cry became a Ps2 Exclusive and a commerical success. Another example was Kamoni's Silent Hill 3. It started off as an xbox exclusive then was given to the PS2 without so much as a second thought. Also with Silent Hill 2. Yes it came to the xbox with extra content quite a while after the Ps2 version was out but when SH2 went greatest hits on PS2 it was re-released with ALL THE EXTRA CONTENT, completely negating all the benifits. Even GTA coming to the Xbox is nothing more than Sony controlling things. They let Rockstar break their agreement for a GTA exclusive til 2004 on PS2 due to the simple fact that they've already made a HUGE amount of money for Sony and that the revenue has capped due to the slowing of sales of both GTA titles. They are even rumors already spreading that since Sony allowed Rockstar to release GTA 3 and GTA: VC on xbox before 2004 that Rockstar has already made a new agreement to have GTA 4 a Sony exclusive for at least a year before any kind of port (besides pc).

3) The reputation and mentality of M$ in the Asain Market. As long as M$ has seriously sub-standard console sales in Japan and other Asian Markets it's a whole market that is run by Sony. If Ps3 is number 2 here but number one in europe and Asia it still has conquered the Xbox in two thirds of the market. What makes things worse for the big green box? Their mentality dealing with the Asian Market. They keep saying "all we have to do is keep pumping money into the system in Japan and it'll succeed someday." which is not the kind of mentality they need. They need to come up with a battle plan that will include a global strategy, and not just a simple american market one. M$ also needs to seriously stop bullying around a lot of the Asain companies themselves. An example of this is when Square was in trouble of going under. M$ came in and just said they were going to buy them out while Sony offered enough Money to just get them back on their feet. Now Sony has Square Enix and all their RPGs in their corner and the comany has no desire to even work with M$ on any project. (now I know some people hate Square and don't think much of them as a company but whether you like it or not FFX, Kingdom Hearts, FFX-2, FFXI all are commerical sucesses which means money and market share.)

Anyway Microsoft has a very big uphill battle. Yes they have a 25 percent increase but look at it like this...if everybody has a Ps2 already what else is there? The number 2 system...the Xbox.

I also don't want anybody to think I'm dissing the 'box in anyway but these are what M$ has to face if they want to beat Sony.

Sony doesn't control that. They didn't let them break the agreement, that's when the contract ends. GTA is one of the biggest selling games for PS2. If Rockstar wanted to, Sony would make the same agreement in a heart beat, I'd call them stupid if they didn't. If GTA was put to both systems, they [rockstar] would make more money. That is why Rockstar chooses to put it on the xbox. Surely if it was just because revenue has crapped, Sony would still keep that contract for future releases.

4) Think of playstation3 like Lord of the Rings. Even if it sucked, it would still sell well just because it's lotr. Although, lotr didn't suck, nor will the ps3 probably. But that is an example.

btw, as soon as gta3 on xbox comes out, ps2 vc is gone too mwahaha. But im still keeping my ps2.

Let Sony have Japan. I think they should care less about Japan and work on the rest of the world where the XBox is selling great. Japan will come around sooner or later. They will come to their senses and finely realize the Americans developed a better console then they did.

Oh ya, we still make better cars too. :D

Yes the agreement between Rockstar and Sony ends in 2004 but GTA will be out for xbox in 2003. In order for that to happen both compaines have to sit down and discuss a new agreement, that's how Sony has its finger in the pie.

As for the Japanese Market, it's foolish to neglect them. They are more adamant gamers than most give them credit for and it's a huge wealth of market to who ever can get them. The reason M$ does so poorly is how they just try to go in and take over businesses over there like they did here. It's a poor strategy dealing with people that pride themselves on thier businesses and work ethic.

Well maybe so. But you know if Microsoft gives them the finger and walks away there will be no more XBox in Japan being sold. And I know full well, people want, what they can't have. That would create a demand for the XBox in Japan and then Microsoft maybe able to sell more XBoxes... Just one mans point of view.

the xbox rules
the profits probably became higher because people realized the beauty of modding

Better graphics, better games, faster CPU & GPU, more options, ect ect.

but none of that improved since first released..

I see what you mean. I was under the impression that gta3 was coming out after the contract ended, which sony would not control. Looked at the release dates and it is set to november 4 2003, not 2004. So i guess sony DID have a say in it. Im just glad that the xbox will have gta3 and vice city double pack, instead of 2 games. Rockstar would be nothing without Take2 Games, mwahahaha.

You think they can pack both games on one disk? Or do you think they will use a double sided DVD? I can see this is going to be a bitch to make a back up all ready…

Yeah both games will fit on one dual layered disc. Especially since thats what Xbox mainly uses. All Grand Theft Autos are mainly music. The rest will fit in about 700mb.

Im not saying they wont put it on a dual sided disc, just saying they can fit them on a dual layered.




Tyler!

I think Japan is key too. It's more important to sell in Japan than US even.

This round Sony had a big lead just because it was backward compatible with the PS1 games, but next round both can have a large library of older games to add.

They';re going to make it two discs. I can tell cuz we got the PS2 double pack and the xbox is having lauuched the exact same way. So in other words it'll be just like all the other back-ups, simple!

and Jiveturkey is right. If xbox 2 is backwards compatible it'll increase the libary. But Sony annouced that Ps3 and every Sony system from here on in will be compatible with all the sony playstation games.

Man, video games of the future will rock. If they are backwords compatable, the libraries will be large no matter which console you get mwahahaha.

What im wonder is how cheap the ps1 will get after the ps3 release. You think Sony will discontinue the line and make a PStwo?

Yeah I bet psone will be discontinued. But since the games are still there thatll be cool. Ps2 will probably drop hella cheap. I hear that this comming November there may be a PS2 drop in price. Its just a rumor though but this guy works at EB so who knows.

And if PS2 drops you know Xbox will follow. ;)


Tyler!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JiveTurkey
[B]I think Japan is key too. It's more important to sell in Japan than US even.Its not gonna happen. Japan tends to shy away from ANY American made products. Japan believes in Exports, not Imports. I dont think the Xbox will ever get a fair chance in japan. Most game developers are in Japan, and are not going to support a console that could hurt their market.Any HONEST gameplayer that has played both consoles knows the xbox out preforms the PS2. More power, better graphics, gameplay and a HD. If you disagree then thats your opinion but I cant name one game thats been released for both consoles that the xbox version didnt beat the PS2......This is just my opinion and i am not trying to start a flaming war or offend any of my Japaneese fellow members.

That may be true but you are forgetting one of the major factors in marketing - the best product doesn't always win. The most popular product does.

The problem with Japan is that there is a much larger audience and wider age range of potential customers that cant be ignored.

The other major problem is that most game development happens in Japan not America. MS promised they would buy rights to all the best PC games and have a huge library (hmm Phantom anyone?) which they havent. They havent been very successful making their own games or buying rights to that many killer games either.

Yep, I agree.

wooooooah
cool icon

The story of Sony is this: From here on in they will always support two systems. So when ps3 comes out then they'll dicontinue ps1 and when ps4 comes out then down comes ps2.

As for better systems, specs wise, yes the xbox is the powerhouse but I dunno if I can agree about every game beating the ps2 hands down. I played Max Payne back to back for both systems and barely noticed any real difference except maybe a muted texture or two on the Ps2, which in the end who cares? Somethign a lot of people forget is that it's GAMEPLAY that makes games, not graphics. For example DOA 3 might look better than Soul Calibur II but I find the gameplay for Soul Cal 2 WAY more fun and engaging than DOA 3 which I feel is actually boring. Devil May Cry may not compare to the graphics of Otagi but I find DMC much more fun and exciting. For me it's all about the game play.

I do feel Microsoft let a lot of people down with the big green box. They promised more than they're giving, something I hear a lot of uber xbox fanatics (something this board lacks fortunately, leading to a lot of INTELLIGENT conversions and discussions) say was the problem of the Ps2, Sony promised more. Well so did MS. I'm not taking away anything from what MS has accomplished, a solid place as number 2 in the American Household, a feat by no means a small task, but I feel they really need to concentrate on what makes a great game, and THEN add amazing graphics...ya know, like they did with Halo. They promised severe quality control and I feel that they let people down, and another thing that MS has doen to start irking me is that EVERY game title I buy now comes with 2 months free of XBL. It's literally whoring itself out to people. If you want it you know about it and you get it, don't include 5 flyers telling me about the great-ness of online gaming. Most people know about XBL already so advertise on the games, inform the retailers about new stuff, don;t clutter up my box and make my manual for the game a three page booklet on what to do then put another 20 pages about how live works.

And on a quick side note I also don't like Rainbow 6 3 for one reason. Everytime the game loads up it tries to make a XBL account, how friggin annoying.

i remember when the xbox was going to come out. I said "no way ms is gonna do good in the market, i mean sony and nintendo pretty much have it on lockdown." Well, Out came the nintendo and I found myself buying an xbox. Oh man, was i ever wrong. I would have regretted buying a gamecube so much. btw, i had a ps3 then too.

yay, gta3 is coming out soon. The place I work at got a shipment of the PS2 double pack. Unfortunately it wont be selling until tuesday. DAMN THE AMERICAN TUESDAY LAW. Or is it pretty similar around the world?

LMAO! :p


Tyler!

I believe that MS will make a huge dent in the next gen!!!
 

Sony is in serious financial trouble and is doing some major financial restructuring. So that means that they will have to count for each dollar and investments that have a long turn around may be avoided. What this means in that this is trully MS "window" of opportunity Sony cannot compete if they did a major drop in price on the X Box or X Box next. MS has some serious major coin and could easily lose money again to make sure they are the next console of choice.


I think though what will matter the most is who has the best console and I believe that the XBOX has proven itself as a reliable console, the PS2 has had several problems with the cd tray, with dre's. XBox has an advantage of being the advanced console, PS2 being out the longest and Nintendo as the cheapest. I think though the next round will be different and each console will lean on its record.

Re: I believe that MS will make a huge dent in the next gen!!!
 

Care to elaborate?






Tyler!

Heres an article
 

http://www.stereophile.com/shownews.cgi?1771


Shows the woes of Sony there not gonna fold but need to do some MAJOR restructuring

You'll notice that all of the changes will be in things other than PS2 production. They aren't gonna take any money away from one of their strongest products.

MS has a record of pulling out of losing situations (like their set top box dream or the whole .NET changed). I read an article that stated many MS execs were already upset they were losing money on the consoles. If it doesn't start making a nice profit next generation I wouldn't put it past MS to just give up and move on. They are driven by quarterly reports to investors and it's hard to tell them to wait a few years to make money on this when they have many other goods to promote that make much more.

Yes I agree.


I didnt see any indication that the PS2 was actually the one losing money. The reference was more directed towards " Sony Pictures Entertainment, the company's movie unit, has been hammered by lackluster performance, and Sony Music".



Tyler!

I never said that SCEA was losing money
 

The fact is the SCEA or PS2 division can only keep Sony afloat for so long, if these investments don't pay off there screwed. I think that MS it won't matter how much they lose this round they went in planning on losing major amounts of cash. There planning a long haul they know the importance of this market and the fact that its still in its infantcey and will record growth for many years to come. If MS sees a weakness they will exploit it. Since SCEA is the ONLY place sony is making a profit they couldn't afford to lose money as MS can lose ALOT and ALOT more if it thought it could force SONY out.

MS needs to have this market and I think they will do whatever it takes, Sony needs to reorganize refocus and get there company out of the red, focusing to much on the console may make them a console only company.

But Like any company MS wants money now. A lot of investors are pissed about the huge loss of money and to be honest the only thing that even keeps MS loaded is the fact that almost ANY computer out there runs a windows OS. It's like a plague that spread to the whole universe. Americans get...Windows or Linux and guess what comes pre-installed on any store bought computer? Hell we probaly are all running windows of some format right now. That keeps MS's pocket rich. Anyway Micosoft also has the nasty habit of just buying itself out of any situation as well and in the console market it's a lot harder to do. They figured "grab RARE and we'll make a quick buck but so far Grabbed by the Ghoulies isn't flying off the shelves. Investors are gonna be the final fate of any future MS console and they way this one is turning out, I wouldn't be surprised that if Xbox Next suffers a money loss eqaul or worse to this then I think MS will pull the plug and call it a tax write off on a business venture. MS was hoping to pull a Sony PSX. First Round Knockout Winner which is wasn't....it became a sluggin match for with the PS2 and it lost. MS is a bit shaken no matter what Ed Fries says. But Gates does hate losing.....

As for Sony yes it is in trouble but you know what? They'll never collapse. They may not be as huge of a corperation here but in Japan it's a monolith. Hell they have everything from a Sony OS to about a billion other things like banks and such. Sony ain't going anywhere. From what my friend from Japan was telling me that if Sony ever went belly up the whole ecomonical structure of Japan would fall because Sony has so many busniess ventures. they're restructuring like every business does at some point to maximize efficentecy, minmizing departments to make a chain of command simpler. Their Movie dvision and Music Devision are the only things sucking Sony try and both industries in general are hurting due to various factors.

I agree to a certain extent
 

But the reason Sony is so huge is that they are world wide and that they had a excellent reputation in electronics. They cannot rely on there PS2 as that is not best source of income. Sure MS has investors but also has a piggy bank with over 10 billion dollars. Sony also has investors who are very discouraged at the company's position.

The fact is that the XBox has done better than they estimated so the investors can't be discouraged beacuse they didn't expect to sell as many consoles or that Live would be as big as it is. MS is still being introduced to countries like South Korea so theres many more markets to tap into.

From what I gather it seems to me that MS is right where it wants to be in fact is better than where they thought they would be. If there was a direct console war next generation I think that MS is in a better position to absorb temporary losses which will be off set by software.

I can guarentee when the nest reports come out after XMass that the XBox financial picture will be so much better. They have released alot of top notch software and those sales plus the royalties from the other software sales will really improve there financial position.

Sony isn't just relying on the PS2 for revenue, it's got about a billion sources of it, it's just taking real losses in Movies and Music, again where the all other industries involved are taking losses.

MS is all about the money, they always have been and always will. When they can't buy the competition out they figure some other way to completely under-mine the structure to get a piece of the cake. The xbox has NOT met MS's epectations. They wanted to be number one, they're number 2. XBL has actually done a bit better than expecting but they cannot rely on XBL to sell the system. The software has to do that and yes a lot of big titles aren't out for box yet but the console is already in it's mid-life....and games like Fable just keep getting pushed back. Figure the new next-gen systems will be out in 2006ish realistically which gives the xbox the next three years to try to attempt to esablish a bigger name for itself in the market. They need to appeal to a boarder market and they are running out of time. Until they do, Sony will rule the roost. This console generation have been broken down like this: (by the by this is all software related cuz it's software that gets game systems sold)


Xbox:
Pros: Mulitplayer games are the best here, Solid online play service

Cons: Almost no great platformers (they've got good ones but no great ones), scarce RPG appearences and the few that they have range from excellent to roadkill. Geared mainly for adults. MS's ability to cut off and ban anybody that wanted to actually explore the true limits of their xbox console via a mod chip (that really pisses me off)

Sony PS2
Pros: Largest variety for all ages. High Quality platformers (these things are like Candy to little kids, I get about 20 requests a day for Jak II alone) A large selcection of RPGs (which, love'em or hate'em seem to be big sellers for a lot of people) Having the only online EA titles (everybody who wnated to play Madden Online got the PS2 version, the only one with online ability and MOD: Rising Sun is online only for the ps2 and it connects to the allied assualt servers)

Cons: most delicate system ever! (for a note I want to say I have a gen one ps2 and have left it on my shelf since purchased. I have played it for hours on end and have not experienced ONE disc read error....I'm sick of people mis-treating their stuff and blaming the manufactor for their screw-ups) Some of the online games you have to play for (nothing I wanna play though).

Anyway I know there is more pros and cons to each system but the best thing I can say is this: Decide for yourself. Sony is in trouble yes but they'll be fine. Xbox isn't doing as amazing as MS hoped and they have let a number of people down. Still Both systems are doing exceptionally well in a market that barely exsisted 20 yearsd ago. ...too late...brain shutting down now...goodnight!

Not true
 

MS knew going in that Sony had 40 million PS2 units shipped BEFORE the release of there console. I know they did not expect to be number one not unless they had a pot smoking hippie doing there forecasts. They also knew that even with there release that Sony would continue selling units so becoming number 1 was not realistic. There main goal going in was trying to compete with Nintendo which they have outdone every expectation of forecasters I read most gave MS a year before clearing out some figured it would do this console then clear out. Well world wide the XBox has outsold GCN even with the ridiculous sales in Japan imagine if Japanese people bough imports.

MS has grabbed a share of this generations console even with the PS2 advantage of being released 1 1/2 years ahead of the XBox. And now not only that LIVE has surpassed all there expectations as well. They have it all the console the software the LIVE service now its time to sit back and reap the rewards of there investments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!