Cd burner that can override copy protections
 

Anybody know a Cd burner that can override copy protections?

A Lite-on will copy all copy protections that are able to be backed up 1:1. Securom 4.8 and higher cannot be copied 1:1.

damn, havent been here for a whjile, so the new securom is a b!!tch?

so do you need any special software to copy cd's with a lite on to avoid the copy protection? sorry to sound like a noob but i sort of am

You should use Alcohol 120% and read this article

Re: Cd burner that can override copy protections
 

It's not only a question like override; it's only the question if your copy-software can handle it; so can read and understand the protection.
And finally for making an image or 1:1 copy if can be realized with the burning_software.

Of course, if your CD-burner do not have enough languages like
DAO, SAO, TAO and/or with PQ, PW, RAW, the less succesfull burning results are available.

And finally, StarForce v3 and v4 SE (secret edition), PlumpInt and a few others (based on hardware equipment protection) needs newest software for reading (expected late 2003 or later) so
no-cd crack should be running around first, to make backup otherwise possible.

Source:
[MACRO]
Movement Against CopyRight Organizations
Jakarta - Indonesia

i've got the trial version of alcohol 120% but will it work with my ancient hewlett packard cdwriter plus 8200 series burner that i got for my 17th birthday? my friend has the lite on and i'm jelous :(

Have a look here - you will want two sheep in the EFM column.
If have no sheep you can't copy Safedisk 2 1:1 - you can try using Alcohol's "Bypass EFM Error" while writing - not guarateed to work thou.
If one sheep you can copy Safedisk 2.4 and below 1:1 - for later versions you can use Bypass EFM Error - good chance of it working
Two sheep - you can copy all versions of Safedisk - except Safedisk 2.9 (only very few burners can do it) - Bypass EFM Error should work for you

bull****!
http://www.fileforums.com/showthread...threadid=51700

Go and get this one, it defeats every commercial copyprotection and is able to clone the Securom V 4.8xxx without twin- oder doubled-sectors. It uses the onboard gigarec-capability to write exactly the same sector-density which is found on the originals.


Plextor is back!

greets

vbgd

too bad the cheapest price for it is around $100USD!!! :( lite-ons can be had from $20 or so after MIR.

Can my Litey 52246S copy safedisk 2.9 in "brute" fashion, ie. without any sort of emulation??

Can it read pregap?

Not so fast
 

Not so fast, mein freund. :cool:

As far as I know, NO writer whatsoever can reproduce density variation on a CD-R simply because CD-Rs have a constant sector density, making its variation PHYSICALLY impossible (It can only be emulated during write) - I read this somewhere on a DAEMON-tools related site. Only on CD-ROMs can this vary.

Re: Cd burner that can override copy protections
 

Burn what can't be burnt, Liteon rulez ! :cool: :cool: :cool:

yes...but do liteons compare to the quality of plextors..and if so..why do plextors cost 136 euros and liteons cost only 66 euros????

Face-off
 

Good question, sacrebleu! :)

Perhaps the only reason why Plexy is so much more Xpensive than Liteon - and its only advantage over the latter - is the higher buffer amount (8 mb for the PX premium!) . Howver believe me, these days this is certainly not worth the extra cost. Indeed, what does extra buffer memory mean?

- No buffer underrun? Bullsh*t. Buffer underrun (burn-proof & clones) technology exists since time immemorial (2 years ago :D ). Whatever buffer amount the burner has, countless test-runs have shown that an underrun cannot occur on modern burners.

- Shorter writing times?? (now) utter rubbish. True enough, this could have applied a few years ago, but today modern systems (good mboard/CPU) can maintain sufficient data flow to writer to prevent a slowdown due to burn-proof activation, unless of course you launch a writing session in a highly intensive multitasking environment, eg. having clonecd, quake 3 and a divx encoding running at the same time :D . If so, surely enough with only 2mb, buffer will empty more often, triggering burn-proof/whatever, and global writing time will thus be longer than with an 8mb buffer. But then again, who would write a cd whilst playing a 3D game...

I personally own an LTR 52246S (plan to switch to 52327S) myself and have never encountered a slowdown while burning at 52x. As I said, it takes more than just moving the mouse pointer or playing an audio/video file to slow down the writing.

Besides, Litey seems 2 have the best clonecd compatibility. Even though the latest plexy (the premium) matches the liteons when reading protected data cds and correctly encoding EFM (in fact, both the PX premium and the latest liteys pull this off brilliantly), Litey still has the edge when reading copy-protected AUDIO cds. It also has much, much greater media compatibility: while Plexies tend to be quite fussy about CD-R quality, Liteon will take anything thrown at it, without making a coaster.

Moreover, Liteon writers have the same hardware quality & robustness as the Plextors (all the more so than both are assembled by the same manufacturer, oui monsieur! :cool: ).

One damper about the Liteon though: despite their hardware & chipset quality, firmware (writer BIOS) can be sometimes dubious, eg. I read once about a Liteon 40/12/48 firmware update meant to improve media compatibility but resulted in some CD-RW verbatim discs becoming "unwritable" until a yet newer firmware came around! Nevertheless, such events R quite seldom and personally I've never run into similar problems - in fact I even burn backups of protected game CDs on cheap generic brand CD-Rs and never got a coaster so far, as long as clonecd settings were appropriate :) .
-> In general, keep your burner's fw updated and you'll keep your burner happy :p

There U go mon ami, that's my take on the PX/LTR face-off. Both brands are deemed top-of-the-line, spawning off very quick & efficient writers.
So it's up 2 U if you want to $pend extra buck$ on a writer that has something of a name about it or just settle for a cheaper counterpart which makes more than a match for the Px in terms of performance, speed & quality.

If you're planning on buying a new writer, the choice is yours, but choose wisely, in the name of Zeus ;)

Good summary, but you are leaving out some important features of the Plextor. Namely...

Gigarec - allows high capacity storage of up to 1 GB on a 700 MB disc. With this advanced feature, you can increase the maximum writing capacity up to 40%

Securec - offers password protection for your disc and other valuable data

These two features are unique to the Plextor and are very valubale things to have.

Now, a major boon you have left out (and you claim the two drives can handle protections equally), is that the Plextor Premium can now copy the latest Securom New 4.8 games when used with Blindwrite Suite. This can't be achieved by any other drive.

You say that Lite handles audio copy protections better - well Plextools (software that comes with the Plextor drive and will only work with Plextor drives) is well known to be excellent at handling audio copy protections.

So if you could throw them into your biased summary it would be much appreciated.

Not so fast...
 

"Biased" - so much for striving for an objective comparison. Well, accept my most sincere apologies for having my preferences AND being moneywise - had I only known this was wrong... :D

Anyways, many thanks for "completing" my summary - spares me some EXTRA typing :D :D :D


Biased, U say ?
Mais non, I'm standing up for Liteon "merely"

- because it's the cheapest of the two brand$ and never had that reputation of deliberately downgrading its firmware so as to prevent copying certain discs (cf. the Plextor-Macrovision alliance ?) - I bet you before long even Plextor Premium will have a firmware update which will prevent flashing back 2 previous versions AND will also prevent copying latest Safediscs.
- because it has never failed me so far - and god knows that unlike our US counterparts, we europeans have all the fun when it comes to copy-protections (Securom 4.84xxx, Ring Protech 2, Starforce 1/2, Phenoprotect, grrr :mad: )
- because I own a Liteon myself :p

U may have misunderstood my statements, perhaps: I am NOT undermining Plextor. I'm just wondering whether despite its very honorable performance & features, it is really worth the extra zeroe$ on its price tag...

U C, I still have to find a copy-protected CD that can withstand my burner.

1) Securec-encrypted discs can only be read using Plextools! I don't know how complex Securec crypting is, but I you want to protect your data on a CD, you can always create a Rar or Ace archive - Rar encryption is very strong when the password length exceeds 7 caracters, and the method is just as complicated as using the Plextools/Securec combo...

2) Can even the Plextor handle even the latest Cactus Datashield 100 audio protections (these ones are the toughest) ???
With the latest firmware, my old 52246S pulls it off easily, and without the need for Plextools :D

3) According to you, only the PX Premium can copy the latest Securom 4.8 ?! Strange indeed, for if so how, just HOW do you explain that I was able to make 1:1 - yes, working 1:1 backups of Securom 4.83xx and 4.84yy-protected titles such as No One Lives Forever 2, Bloodrayne, Unreal 2003, Unreal Awakening, using Blindwrite + BWAbuilder. The backups run flawlessly in both my burner and my DVD reader - without any software, any emulation running in the background (Daemon Tools 'Securom-emulate', Alcohol 120 'RMPS emulation', CloneCD 'Hide CD-R option' or whatever). The game just recognizes these backups as the original CD :cool:
True enough, it is quite possible that during the burning process Blindwrite only simulates the density variations of the original CD-ROM. But if so, this is still enough to thwart the latest Securom 4.84 schemes. I don't know how Gigarec works, though you could check out this thread cdrlabs.com/reviews/index.php?reviewid=185&page=Features

One way to find out if the Premium can reproduce securom density variations on a CD-R would be by running BWAbuilder on a CD-R backup that was made by Blindwrite/BWAbuilder using the Premium and finding out if the resulting curve is identical to the original CD-ROM's reading, or instead just a normal parabolic curve.

All modern drives' chipsets allow reading of density variations on a CD-ROM. Hence, being able to write them would be just a question of having the proper firmware, not a modified chipset. If Plextor has taken the lead in this matter, it's but a question of time before other manufacturers fall in behind - and for a lower price at that, hehe...

IF IT CAN BE READ IT CAN BE BURNT

This leaves us with Gigarec's ability to squeeze in more data. Indeed this is impressive. One backdraw, though - cf. the aforementionned thread - reader compatibility is but only partial, especially when using Gigarec at 1.3, or at its full 1.4 potential, in all its glory..

Which leaves me wondering just which one of us is really being biased - perhaps we both are, mon ami ;)

Re: Not so fast...
 

You did not make a 1:1 copy with the Lite-on, the density will be different if checked, and you would not be able to make a copy of that copy due to this.
If you read here you'll can read about the Premium's unique ability to copy Securom New 4.8

The belief that Plextor will release a f/w that will render the Premium useless against Safedisk and prevent downgrading is unsubstantiated.
There was only one incident which was similar to this - the Plextor 12X wrote perfect EFM bit patterns with original f/w then this ability disappeared in an update.
In all other drives this has not happened - and on that, it would be pointless giving the drives this ability in the first place in subsequent new drives.

Using WinRAR to protect your files on a cd is inconvienant to say the least - for example, having to copy files to HD before use, time to decompress etc etc along with other logistical problems.
Yes the Plextor can handle CDS100 - in addition, Plextor drives do have a far advanced audio circuitry allowing for better ripping which is nice. :)

I've just giving the other side of the coin, Plextor is well reknowned for quality products, and this reputation is well earned.
Lite-on substitutes quality to cut costs, this is evident by the fact that many of the drives can be upgraded to a faster drive via a simple firmware update as they use the same chipset.
Lite-on's are great for a cheap drive that will do it all (almost), but it is undoubtedly of lesser quality build than most other drives. The Plextor support is second to none - have a problem with your drive within two years of purchase and they will send you a brand new one on receipt of your old drive. Customer's often get a new drive within a matter of days, no quibble. I'm still using my Plextor 24X after burning over 10,000 disks at least.

au revoir

Mystery gets deeper
 

Concerning customer service, I must say U ring true :( : Although I maintain - and know - that Liteon hardware robustness & quality is beyond any criticism, I don't make much of Liteon customer service - in fact I've tried finding Liteon's address/phone number in Europe, just through simple curiosity, and to ask them info on their f/w - to no avail. Guess cheaper prices do have a "cost"... :p

As for correct EFM modulation, both the LTR 52246S and the Premium are 2-sheep burners but have failed the 3-sheep tests. I'm most impatient to see the results on the LTR 52327S with their new 7S chipset...

True enough, making a backup of my Liteon-made Securom New backup is impossible without including the BWA file made from the original CD-ROM. Indeed when running BWAbuilder on the backup, it returns a simple parabolic curve, meaning that the linear density on my CD-R is constant. This is why I always store my BWA files aside, should the need of a "meta-backup" arise. :D It would be interresting to have a Premium-owner do the same experiment: a backup of a Premium-made backup, without using any other data source (the BWA file), ie. making a correct BWA file from the backup itself. If this works, then thumbs up for Plextor for this would give them a clear, though temporary headstart over their competitors...

According to you, this suggests that making density variations on a CD-R is possible. Fascinating, for that would mean that there is virtually no difference between CD-ROMs and CD-Rs, in the sense that what can be pressed on a CD-ROM can be burnt in 1:1 fashion on a CD-R...

And yet...yet... my results seem contradictory to say the least. True, my Litey does read but does NOT reproduce density variations on the CD-R (though as I said this is more of a firmware issue, not a chipset-related one). But then, how HOW HOW is it that the game recognizes my latest 4.84xxx backups as being the original CDs, whatever reader I use, and most importantly without any sort of program/emulator running in the background ???
:confused: :confused: :confused:
In other words, how can density variation be "statically" emulated on a CD-R without being actually implemented, whilst still being able to circumvent the game's density check???
There just has to be an explanation to this...

If you or anyone else could shed some light on this mystery I would be most grateful, though I feel this will call on the knowledge & wisdom of a Master Jedi Engineer :p

Awaiting feedback

Re: Mystery gets deeper
 

According to this thread in another forum the BWA file made from a backup created using the latest Blindwrite and the Plex Premium matches exactly with the one created from an original SecuROM protected CD, except towards the end of the Medium.

Another person in that thread claims to have made the density variations visible with the naked eye by using a CD-R with a deep-blue Dye. If that is correct, density variations must truly be reproductable using this method.

Who would have thougt this could be possible? :D

Ach so...
 

Roger, "LeerAchtzig", checked out the thread, aber scheiße! Es ist in deutsch :D I just read the beginning & from what I gather, VSO have optimized Blindwrite to fully utilize the Gigarec capabilities of the Premium to make "real" Securom clones, without any additionnal settings, provided Premium BIOS is updated. According to users, I quote: the backups are 'damn close' to the originals, like '99.99%' or something, but the Japs are planning to enhance Securom density-security. I'll return to this thread later, mit ein Wortbuch.

Still awaiting Xplanation as to how my Liteon backups can work in various drives without any emulation needed... :mad:

PS. I like your quote about the dying Shaolin monk. The msg has been trotted out countless times, but still holds true... :)

Re: Ach so...
 

If you read here it shows that when using the BWA no emulation is needed. If i remember it's to do with the Twinsector technique (Twinpeaks). But it invariably is not a 1:1 copy due to the linear density not being replicated.

Mystery still unshaken
 

OK thx 4 the info checked out the thread, indeed it is confirmed, when burning a BW image+BWA file (using Litey), no further emulation is needed. I wonder if Alcohol 120 with MDS file would works likewise, though...

As far as I remember, 'twin-sectors' has nothing to do with the Securom protection. Twin-sectors are used only by the Tagès scheme, which is a purely "software" protection involving modified subchannels. Like Securom, Tagès is difficult to read (but not for the same reason), if not impossible with standard software, however unlike Securom, it is extremely easy to write, as explained in this very interesting discussion :)

So mystery remains whole, for the thread U refered to doesn't explain how this works.

- No emulator whatsoever running in the background
- The CD-R backup has a constant linear density

Unless... unless Blindwrite writes twin-sectors (identical sectors, including Q subchannel) to trick the game into thinking that the "virtual density" being thus read on the backup corresponds to that of the original CD. So it's as though BW were actually writing a Tagès scheme on the disk! Hmm, that's clever :cool:

yack yack yack...chill out m8s..you r acting like maniacs,,like if you have just stopped the same cab and you both want to get in....!!!chill out...so plextors are in noway so much more expensive that liteons just because they have 2 or 3 more "features"!!there must be something...so after following all the go here and there links i finally came to a point which i think you will accept....Liteons are the best cheap solution and in many peoples opinion its a miracle that they are SO cheap!!plexes have a normal price for the things they offer there will be no big difference for a guy that only wants to copy some of his games because this guy won't bother reading all the solutions to bypass a certain copy protections so he will just download the crack for the game..things are pretty simple!aren't they?

mmmm....icebreaker quite an answer!

Pedo mellon a minos

not even one resemblance..but...good effort!

Of cos' not, it's in elvish... :cool:

oh..yes..thats a real difference...well ..so this is the end of the thred...bye~!

Bye

Re: Re: Mystery gets deeper
 

Yeah, you got it. The other freaks could write whatever they want and call copies with dual- or twinsectors "real 1:1 copies". They don`t understand how the protection and how gigarec works. ROFL

Quote:

Another person in that thread claims to have made the density variations visible with the naked eye by using a CD-R with a deep-blue Dye. If that is correct, density variations must truly be reproductable using this method. Who would have thougt this could be possible? :D

Yeah, this person was me. You really could believe this.

greets

vbgd

Re: Ach so...
 

Yeah, you checked my thread. And the copies are really damn near the original and they are working in nearly every CD-ROM-Unit. And i think our japanese friends will optimize the sector-density to a level which can`t be reproduced by this burner.

Your LiteOn-Copies are using stretched-sectors, so called twin- or dual-sectors. Blindwrite/Alcohol 120% takes the oversized sector and burns it using two normal sectors. So your LiteOn-Copies are capable to work in many CD-ROM-Drives. (With the Risk of ECC-Errors and multiple Problems reading this **** indeed). Check the explanations for ECMA-130 and Frame-Interleaving if you want to know more.

Greets

vbgd

Re: Not so fast
 

No, thats wrong. It depends on the wavelenght of the laser and the gigarec-function in the Plexwriter Premium fixes this problem!

Greets

vbgd

Time warp
 

LOLOL the post to which U just replied dates back aeons ago, when I was but a mere newbie in this forum :D . It's long since I've understood how this Gigarec thing works.

-> Besides, come to think of it, if the lengths of pits & lands can vary on a (pressed) CD-ROM, it seems logical that they can also vary on a (burnt) CD-R(W) - comes to the same thing, nicht war?...

Same goes 4 the twin-sectors technique (although the way it works PRECISELY is somewhat beyond my scope). Ironically, we owe this to Thompson, the makers of Tagès. Indeed, Tagès uses twinsectors (involving modified Q-subchannels, I think) and now the very same method is used to defeat another scheme - devilishly clever : making a 'Tagès' disk to statically emulate a 'Securom' disk - and on the other hand no one has ever bothered to write a software that can read Tagès since this protection was only used for one game title...

To this day I've never run into any CRC issue when using a twinsectors-backup. Although VSO recommends burning 2 disks (one with twinpeaks, for the protection check, and the other without twinpeaks to ensure data integrity), I always use one disk only. Despite the countless backups of Securom 4.8xx I've made, I've had no setbacks so far :cool:

Since readers/burners can READ density variations, perhaps what is needed to confer Gigarec-capabilites onto a burner is only an appropriate firmware flash (cf. IF IT CAN BE READ IT CAN BE BURNT). However, such firmware must surely take quite some time to develop - which would explain the Premium's staggering - and dissuasive! - price :mad: :mad: .

Nevertheless, as the Premium is as of today the only burner featuring such firmware, this gives it a definite headstart over its competitors. Indeed, when making a twinsectors-backup of a 'securom' disk, it is imperative that the 'media descriptor' file (.BWA or .MDS'), be stored somewhere, as it will be needed should the need of making a "backup from the backup" later arise. On the other hand, making a copy of a Premium-made backup does not need this file, as the physical media info can be recovered from the backup as well. Interesting it would be to see how Gigarec will cope with future versions of Securom, once it has been enhanced by the Japs..

Two caveats about the Premium though (and which concern all other burners as a matter of fact):

- it is not a "3-sheep" burner (ie. not 100% correct EFM encoding) - cf. 'safedisk 2.9' issues encountered with this burner, when EFM enhancement is switched off. In fact, with the possible exception of the LTR 52327S' new '7S' chipset, there is as of yet no such burner on the market.
One thing is sure though - should there ever be a burner that has Gigarec built into its firmware AND that also features a "3-sheep"-capable chipset, I'll be the first to rush to the retailer - regardless of the pricetag :D

- Gigarec seems powerless againt Starforce - and so does twinpeaks! In fact in seems Starforce can only be "dynamically" emulated (ie. with Alcohol 120). It is known that both Securom and Starforce use density variations - so what is it that makes Starforce CDs so different from Securom CDs in that even the twinsectors method cannot defeat them? :confused:
If you or anyone could shed some light on this mystery it would be much appreciated..


So I guess it's 0.99:1 backups, more like :D What are the readers on which the backups failed? These units must be having damn good reading accuracy to be able to tell the difference between the originals and the copies...