cloned CD vs no CD patch?
 

I am new to this so let me ask you. Is it easier to clone a game CD and use it in your drive or is it easier to install the no CD/patch software to get around it? And if it is easier to clone the CD, how the heck do you know which technique they used to protect it? And how do you get around that?
Here are the games I have an issue with:
HitMan2
Unreal T. 03
Max Payne
thanks guys, MIke

You can use ClonyXXL 2.1.0.1 to scan your game cds to get informations about the used copy-protection.

Hitman2 and Unreal Tournament 2003 both use Securom *New* 4.8x. Max Payne use Safedisc2.xx .

Hey that is wonderful. Thanks much. So I assume now that I download this ClonyXXL 2.1.0.1 from this or another site and it sits on my hd and I access it from windows as I would any other progrma dn insturct it to examine the CD that is in a porticualr drive and it gives me a report as to what kind of copy protection program is begin used. ok that seems failry straight forward.
Question is, once you have this info, what do you do then? I assume there is a different downloadable utilty from this site that deals with each different copy protection program?
Also, what are your thoughts on the issue of cloning at all vs just installing the no CD software. I've never done either and I don't want to make a huge mistake. I'd like to use a cloned CD to run my games and keep the original safe and secure in it's case so it doesn't get damaged taking it in and out. MIke

http://www.kickme.to/Englishclony << Link to Clony XXL

Clony XXL will identify the copy protection and will also tell you the correct settings to use in Clone CD.
However, because you are trying to copy Securom New 4.8, I recommend you use Alcohol 120% << www.alcohol-software.com >> as it is fairly good at copying Securom New 4.8 as well as Safedisk 2.
In Alcohol 120% you only need to select which copy protection is being used via a drop down menu, then it adjusts the settings accordingly.

Also, have a read at the FAQ at the top of this forum for more detailed help.

With regards to your initial question - which is easier. It depends on what cd-writer you have. If you have a writer capable of beating the protections then it is quite easy: Identify protection, select appropriate profile, burn cd.
If your cd-writer is not capable, burning 1:1 copies becomes a little harder and requires more patience, determination and experimentation. In this case, using a simple crack would be easier. But of course it is not always ease of use that is important - 1:1 copies have their advantages such as being able to simply update the game without having to replace original exe, update, then locate a new cracked exe for the new version. But on the other hand, with a NO-CD crack there is the quite obvious advantage of not having to change cds (but you could achieve this by mounting the image in Alcohol - but of course this will require disk space)
So there's some pros and cons, the decision is yours....

Wow, that is fantastic stuff and you are very well versed. I am using a memorex 48x12x40 burner with the default software, which is Easy CD creator/ Roxio v5.1 basic. Now I know what its like for the newbies when they come to our overclocker boards and ask questions. I am a senior member over at www.amdmb.com and I try to help guys all the time. It very hard to do though when a person doesn't even have a clue where to begin and that's kind of where I'm at with the whole thing. Thanks for all the help and I will try some of this and see how well I can muddle my way through it. This is not my strong suit. If any of you guys ever need help with hardware or overclocker questions, please come visit us. Mike

Tip: Throw EZ CD Creator out the window. Nero is much more stable for CD's you create the layout for and CloneCD, CDRWin, and Alcohol (never tried it yet, no need...yet) are much better for CD copying.

I use NERO, CLONECD, and CDRWIN and have never yet found a CD I can't "clone" 1:1. I've never need Clony XXL either....yet.

CloneCD = for copying and imaging CDs you have as well as buring images to CD and creating a virtual drive to run images from (no need for Daemon Tools anymore)
CDRWin = for burning CD images in BIN/CUE format to CD and making BIN/Cue images if you want.
Nero = for making CD layouts (designing the CD yourself from files you have) and burning or imaging them. Good for making Video CD's too.

well I used Easy CD Creator because it came of course with the burner and it was free. Are any of these other utilities available free on line or is there a fee and if so where do you get them? Mike

Have a look here - this is a list of cd-writers with their capabilities listed.
You ideally want RAW-DAO 96 and the cd-writer to have "two sheep" in the correct EFM coding column. If your burner has two, then you can copy all versions of Safedisk without much problem - just select the Safedisk profile in Alcohol.
If your burner can read and write subchannel data (again refer to the table and look at it's footnotes), then you can copy Securom and Securom New 1:1
However, the new breed of Securom New (4.8 and upwards), which UT2003 and Hitman 2 have, cannot be copied 1:1 perfectly by any burner. But by using Alcohol 120%, you are very likely to obtain a working copy due to it's "Twinpeaks" technique.
You say your burner is a 48X Memorex, having a quick glance at the model numbers, 48MAXX 1248AJ, stands out as a possibility - although that said, one of the other model numbers may be yours. But if it is 48MAXX 1248AJ for example, then it is RAW-DAO 96 and is capable of perfect EFM coding (two sheep).

Clone CD and Alcohol 120% are available online for download. They offer trial periods at the end of which you will be asked for a serial number.
Clony XXL is free.

My memorex is actually a 40x12x48. the model is 40MAXX 1248AJ
just a you described. So yes, it looks like a got lucky in that regard and have a burner that may make life easier.
I'm going to read the rest of all you've said and try to digest it. You are way over my head but I'm going to try very hard to work through this and follow your guidance very carefully. Thanks so much my friend, MIke

I'm unsure if it's up to the newest securom versions, but with all the the securom protected disks i've used, i've succeeded with a little background/taskbar app called "playbackup". i'm not sure where it is hosted but it is free, do a search.

it comes with another prog called "patchimage". this will scan an original version cd image saved to hard-drive by cloneCD and attempt to patch the safedisk frames of the cd image. then you burn the image as usual.

when playbackup runs and you enable the features, it intercepts calls from copy protection schemes and gives them the data they "want" to see. it also has a setting called "hide cdr" because some copy protection will check to see if a disk is a pressed master (original mass produced cd) or a cdr burn (and therefore a copy).

this is the only thing that allowed me to run a burned copy of empire earth, which is securom protected.

thehandler... Do not feel bad, I have been reading this forum for a long time and am just starting to get the hang of backing up cd's 1:1. Been using nocd's for years though. These guys are great here but you need to weed through all the rules violators posts to gleen the info you need.

Read all posts by gh0sth@cker, RincewindTheWiz, cdkiller, Zedy, Cirkutz and some others. THEY KNOW what they are doing!

Special Agent

Thanks to all of you for the info. Special Agent, I am curious what you mean by "rules violators". I don't want to seem like a dummy
(even though I am ) but who's rules? the forum or do you mean doing stuff or providing info on doing stuff that is illegal?
Half the guys I know are running the same copy of an OS on several computers. That's sort of part of this business isn't it?
Well I'm no do gooder by any means but I also will avoid anything illegal if I can help it. I do however love to live in the gray area.
Your comments are most appreciated though just not fully understood <grin>.
I installed Alcohol 120% last night and did a quick run through trying to copy Max Payne. Sadly, I had a hard time even trying to figure out the menu options and how to get the program to work.
It was very late however and I was in bad need of sleep and I just spent a few minutes. I will spend some time reading the on-line manual and retry it later. You guys are wonderful and thanks again. MIke

Special Agent : thanks for mentioning me, I feel flattered ;)

thehandler : Special Agent was talking about this. We're not the bloody BSA. Whether you're running pirate versions or not is really not THAT important to us, what's really important is that we don't talk about it here. We're not going to come checking in your home whether all you're running is legitimate. Heck, if someone tells me they're using a legitimate version, I'll take their word for it. These rules are just to prevent this board from becoming yet another warez board, taken over by warez kiddies. We're here for the legitimate user that wants to excercise his RIGHT to make a backup or play without the cd. If we didn't act against rule breakers, you'd get at least triple the amount of posts, all freeloaders asking why their half-baked pirate copy doesn't work. We simply don't have the time, resources or inclination to help these people, that's all. A lot of my solutions for crack problems need the original disc to work. I've spent a lot of my time on occasions, trying to help people who at the end of a long and arduous trouble solving process turned out to have a warez copy that wouldn't work, ever. Needless to say this pisses me off something terrible. At the end of the day, the board rules are only here to keep the board itself alive, nothing more, nothing less. There are other board rules, like the one about off topic posts, the one about English being the language to use here etc. All these rules are just there to keep this manageable. If you check the statistics you will notice that there 36,351 active members, 41,647 threads and 133,724 posts on FileForums at this time. Believe me without some strict rules this board would just collapse under its own popularity.

Just read the rules, don't break them and we'll all get along just fine. :D

> Special Agent : thanks for mentioning me, I feel flattered

No flattery meant, just speaking the truth 8-)

the handler... Just as RincewindTheWiz explained in his post prior to mine. I am sure we all have tried borrowed programs from time to time. We just do not talk about it here.

My personal philosphy is if you use it buy it. But try it first if you can. I have hundreds of dollars of useless software on my shelf that I wish I could have tried first. I am a big fan of demos and reviews....

-=SA=-

RincewindTheWiz, and Special Agent,
Your points are well taken and understood. Your comments are well thought out and full of good logic. It sounds to me like I stumbled upon the right board by chance. Thats a good thing.
I am looking forward to gaining much needed knowledge from this board. Thanks very much for all the help.
by the way, how is it again that we determine which Anti-copy type of program was used in any given case? You told me already which one is used in the UT 03 and Hit Man 2 but I am curious about Max Payne, What is the simple way for me to find out on my own so I don't sound like such a dope and have to bother you guys all the time? MIke

You can always use this to determine the copy protection.

This link you have provided to ClonyXXL is really cool. It is pretty obvious which command button is for scan and the result is easy to see. But the program looks like it can do much more. I can't read the buttons as it is all in what looks like German or Dutch?
Is there anywhere to find the translation or can it be dowloaded in English? Mike

There's this unofficial Clony XXL English http://www.kickme.to/Englishclony

Or you can download the one at the official site, then look in the options for the English translation.
http://home.arcor.de/bejot/

Ahum.... guys ? Just press "optionen" on the main ClonyXXL screen and click on the english flag to switch the GUI to English. This latest version includes both English and german languages. Shame on you both for not checking ;)

Yep, the wise wizard is correct. Its right there. I Think it is pretty easy to screw it up though because it's easy to miss this extra menu option. But what I nice feature to be able to toggle languages back and forth.
Now if I am looking at this program right, it seems to very quickly and efficiently tell you which copy protection is used in any given case and it could't be easier to use. But it also appears the older version of the program also allowed you to copy as well. Or am I misunderstading what they are saying. They seem to be saying now that they only want the program to be able to inform you of the protection used and thats it.
Seems to me the perfect program would be a combination of both. You would have to have a very current clone/ write program capable of dealing with the newer securom V4X as well as the diagnotic tool to tell you which protection is used.
I am currently trying to use Alcohol 120% to copy some stuff but so far I keep getting nothing but errors. I'm sure in time I will figure it out but it isn't the easiest program to work with. MIke

No the old version couldn't copy disks - it just gave you the ability to start Clone CD with the correct settings.

And when you are talking about errors what do you mean. If you are trying to copy a Safedisk game, and you are talking about read errors, then it is fine. Part of the Safedisk protection includes read errors from sectors ~800-10000
If you just mean you encounter a problem, then elaborate if you require any help. :)

Mr Ghost,
Yes, I am trying to copy a safedisk 2. When I initiated the copy
procedure which first copies an image to the HD from what I gather, it started fine and then started spitting out errors in those sectors you described. I could have lived with that and just gone with it until it was finished and tried the disc in spite of that to see if it worked, BUT, the copy progress also seemed to come to a halt. It DID continue to spit out sector errors left and right but the progress bar/ % readout, never seemed to progress and was jumping from between 1 and 4% and never went anywhere from there so I assumed it just wasn't working due to the errors. Thanks for your concern and help. MIke

Are you using Clone CD or Alcohol? If the reading of the errors are taking too long you can download a tool called Daemon Tools which has a feature called Fast Dump (you will have to read the online manual to find out how to use this properly). This will speed up the reading of the errors.

I am using alcohol. Ok I will try to dl that program. I think I'm also going to try to copy a different CD, perhaps UT03 tonight and see if it wokrs any better with that. Thank you. MIke

I am currently trying to copy Unreal Tournament 03 by way of alcohol 120%. I'm plugging in the proper copywrite protocol as Securom *New* 4.8x. I'm using all the default settings and changing nothing. I initiate the process and it starts to copy the image to the C drive. The DPM progress gets to between 70-77% and then just stops there and sits forever. What am I doing wrong? Mike

Hey thank you for that link. Ok. here is where I'm at. I read all the poop in the thread on DPM. MY problem was that I was trying to read the UT03 disk with my read only AOpen 56K CD Rom. It got to 77% and would not read and complete at any read speed.
So I switched to my memorex writable CD and left it in the max read mode and it read it fine and complete and copied the UT03 image to the HD. The file is there and all seemed to go just great. I then burned an image from the HD using alcohol 120% with my memorex onto a blank CD. It too seemed to go just perfectly.
However, when I try to run the game with the CD from either drive, the game tries to start but won't. I can begin the install procedure from the burned CD and even read the read me files but it won't support the running of the game so I have made great progress but still have something I'm not doing quite right. MIke