Reading, surfing, hearsay, etc...:cool:

But hey, I'm but only a newbie in the matter

the 'cdfreaks' forum can sometimes be an interesting source of info

perhaps U could also check out 'cdrinfo.com'

To this day, only hardware-based copy protections, eg. based on density variation (securom 4/8xx, starforce) pose a real 1:1 copy problem - the Plextor premium is (to this day) the only burner that can reproduce sector density variations (almost)1:1. However, since all modern readers/burners can read these variations, the ability to write them is most certainly a firmware issue.

If it can be Read it can be Burnt

Besides density variations can easily be statically emulated using the Blindwrite-BWAbuilder combo, ie. without any emulator having to run in the background - to do so, BW uses the 'twinpeak' method or something.

Blindwrite+BWAbuilder seems 2B the most versatile tool (backup Safedisk 2.8+, Securom 4.8xx, etc...) however quality seems dubious at times - I once tried to backup a 'Ring-Protech new' disk (game wuz 'Inquisition', european version) using Blindwrite with 'multiple gaps' setting as recommended - it's like 'Intelligent Sector Scan' in Clonecd - and ran into a sh*tload of probs :mad: . I had to turn to clonecd with ISS on to pull it off.

Woah...
OK...

Well, I already asked, but how can I practice?
If I am to use a CD-RW - would it be JUST like CD-R?
Last time I tried, it said there was not enough space!

underburning?
 

Yep, just like using a CD-R, Xcept that U can go back if things go wrong ;)

Were U using 650 Mb (74 min) or 700 Mb (80 min) CD-RWs? The latter is recommended, all the more so than I have never come across a CD-RW that supported overburning (3 extra minutes, ie. 30 mb roughly, was the best I got, media gets permanently damaged if one attempts some serious overburning)

IceBreaker, I do not want to disappoint you, but the problem was not in pre-gap at all.
Alcohol Developers told me that they are using another method because pre-gap is not supported by many CD-RWs.
The problem was the ATIP. It was telling the game that the plugged source is a CD-R, and SafeDisk (SafeDisk 2) has an ability to UNDERSTAND whether the source is a CD-R or CD-ROM.
There an Alcohol 120% option that allows you to HIDE ATIP, making SafeDisk think that its CD-ROM.
Its NOT emulation, once you enable the option, you do not have to run Alcohol 120% to run the game.
IT WORKS NOW!

Ghost in the Machine?
 

So it seems the problem was simpler than I thought, sacrebleu!

Disappointed I am not - your goal wuz to defeat this Safedisk 2.8 sh*t, right ? :D

However puzzled I am - U claim you don't need any sort of active emulation to hide ATIP since you don't have 2 run Booze 120%

About this I am more than skeptical: in fact my guess is, even though U don't run Alcohol, there is still some sort of active program (or part of a program, like .dll or something) running in the background which disables any software's ability to seek ATIP. In other words, emulation is still active hehe...
But there is a simpler, FAR simpler alternative which should allow you to do without such emulation and spare the extra mem used to this effect:

DON'T RUN YOUR BACKUP IN A CD-WRITER! :p

Indeed CD/DVD-readers can't read ATIP, only burners can do that. So if U run your backup in a CD-reader, the game won't be able to tell between CD-ROM and CD-R, regardless of whether an emulation is running or not.

By the way, I didn't know safedisk checks ATIP - this must be but a recent feature (safedisk 2.8 & later)

As I C, Alcohol doesn't support pregap reading - the losers :D . In case you do run into a pregap prob, apart from Discjuggler (expen$ive) and Blindwrite (fickle...), Discdump also supports pregap reading, and it's freeware!! In fact, for all non-hardware protection (ie. schemes other than Securom 4.8+ and Starforce 1/2/3), it is said that nothing beats the Discdump/Fireburner combo

Burn what can't be burnt, Liteon rulez!!!

Quote:

There are 10 types of people in this world - those who understand binary and those who don't

I checked all my background services, and startup - nothing new. This ATIP thing is hidden by editing registry settings, I am sure.
How can a program tell whether the CD is a CD-R or CD-ROM? (I guess the metal and plastic thing comes in now)
Also, Alcohol Development said that pre-gap is not the only way to get things done, they are using another way which works!
They say it does read pre-gap in a way, maybe not like other programs.

Yeah, ALcohol or any other thing like IMAPI is NOT an active service on my machine, I tweaked it for gaming, so I only have 8 CRUCIAL services, none are related to Alcohol or any emulation. I got nothing in my startup.

Yeah, I surely can run a CD in my DVD-ROM, its just that I thought that if a CD-RW cannot read it - its screwed!

ATIP tip
 

Not everything shows up in the services list (ie. loaded DLLs). 4 example, if you set one Virtual drive in Alcohol - and even mount an image - and exit Alcohol, this drive will be available in Windows without having to run Alcohol and without your being able to find anything in the taskbar/services list!!!

You just said it in your previous post: the prog simply reads the ATIP (if CD is in a burner). ATIP contains information on CD media type, etc... Quite simple in fact, there is no need for a built-in subatomic particle-analyser or whatever to check metal/plastic :D :D :D

The Alcohol guy who told U that must have been at the bottle all right :D . There is no such thing as reading data 'in a way' - either it is read 1:1, or it is not. Simple, non?

So, how is that I made a 1:1 copy (or maybe just a working copy?) without pre-gap reading if there was one that is crucial?

Also, you are telling me that ATIP detects what kind of media is being used - so, how does it know what kind of media is used if there is no analyzer???

It was not the Alcohol guy who told me that Alcohol read pre-gap, it was someone else, the Alcohol guy (they all must be drunk...) told me "Yes, pre-gap is a solution, but it is not a great solution, Why? Becuase not all drives can read it. Alcohol Development chose a different solution for this, that works fine with SafeDisc protected games including the latest version of SafeDisc."

The copy you previously made wuz just a WORKING copy, pregap is not needed if U run your backup in a drive that can't read pregap.


As 4 ATIP you may have misunderstood: ATIP IS data, present on the CD (at the very beginning of it in fact). This data consists of media type (tells whether media is a CD-R or CD-RW), maximum allowed write speed, CD size , etc... Of course this data is read-only and cannot be modified (ie burning on a CD-R or CD-RW won't change ATIP, which makes sense...). ATIP is written (probably pressed) on the media during factory manufacturing. Of course, the burner, upon insertion of a CD, "trusts" the content of the ATIP. If an unscrupulous manufacturer makes a 4X CD-R but indicates '8X' and 'CD-RW'-type on its ATIP, the burner will think that it can rewrite on the CD-R, and write at 8X!!! This sort of rip-off is not uncommon when it comes to generic/low-end media of doubtful quality found on the market. It's a big cruel world out there U know...:(

OK, and NOW, I found something Alcohol guys will have trouble explaining.
I did use BlindWrite 4.5.4 (latest) to reburn BF1942, AND it worked. ATIP did not have to be HIDDEN for the copy to work in my CD-RW, but the Alcohol version wanted ATIP hidden!

Makes me wonder...:D

BTW - do you ever read your PMs?

WOAH! Took them a few seconds, and they came up with an anwer!

"This is because blindwrite was probably installed (or was installed) on the computers you are testing out. You should check for pcatip.sys in C:\windows\system32\drivers.

Blindwrite uses something called autoplay, which tells its driver to hide atip. In both alcohol and blindwrite, you require some external program to be installed. "

PCATIP.SYS is present where they say it would...

one 2 one
 

Sure, but nothing beats the immense satisfaction of having made a 1:1 copy when possible, right ? ;)

Me too, for this is way beyond my scope... :(

I seldom do, but I just did - and replied :cool:

LOL, well read up, I already posted and answered why BlindWrite works!