I didnt say it was hard sheep, I said they come across it. And I was listing ideas from the top of my head.

So dont start with me. My name aint begining with an S!

the failed cracker thing wasnt directed at anyone, just anyone who can train, say to sheeps level (and others) could im sure remove protection too....its the same sort of 'game'.. needle in a haystack code finding -> figuring out how to ab(use) it.... and so on.. but most dont get to that level and are happy making crap trainers, or ones that dont work 100% :)
and i have to agree with the 'dma' thing... theres 0 difficultly about it... just requires skill finding the ptr to the struct, or the ptr to the ptr of the struct or whatnot

It was never about that. It was about the fact that when, at your level, manage to train something YOUR WAY, some challenged person comes stating he could've done it 21731289471289 other EASIER different ways around. I'm OK with that, instead of barking you're good and whatnot, show those other 328472984792 ways and teach others. If you don't want to, then better not post in first place and prove your point by training the game your way...

Anyway, I made this CT back in v1.01 of the game. If anyone's interested in updating it, be my guest. It can also be made dynamic (creating a function that scans the memory starting from point a, ranged x -> scan(a,x) - for recognition patterns, allowing you this way to have a fully working script even when game updates).

http://i22.tinypic.com/2cdkeix.gif

Doesn't have as many options as other trainers do, and also doesn't contain RIPPED stuff (just in case, some ppl might wrongly accuse T_T)...

Link to CT file (you'll need Cheat Engine 5.3) » http://www.mediafire.com/?5hm4hipnvmk

P.S.: Not all people like to complicate things by learning how to use a memory editor. It's called laziness and it's your choice. The above is meant for those who want a bit of a challenge, more than just playing a game (which is boring). Don't shoot the poster!

@apache: Dude, instead of talking to us about your business, you'd better correct the typos on main site T_T -> "MAKE SURE YOUR REGISTERED...OR YOU WONT..." in the flash "screener"...

http://i20.tinypic.com/dgtond.gif

So what if it's flash and you can't find a way to use an apostrophe? Thought you were smart ;)

hahah dab.. no need to get ur dress out of tilt mate, i didnt even read what you had written, that reply was directed at my friend tippex.

Tippex seems to have a dislike for simple trainers which i agree with 100% especially when they become the norm, which over the last few months they certainly have done, tippex has done some impressive stuff in the past both publically and personally im sure and as a reflection of this his bar could be set a little higher than most.. i just settle for the fact that u will always have morons who dont have the ability to learn from their own motivations and drive, sunbeam for instance.. people like myself and tippex could have been given a computer in a locked room and because there is something fundamentally inquisitive buried deep in us (meet a real cracker and u will know what i mean) we would still have managed (through trial and error) many of the things we are infamous :) for today.. the OTHER type of people would have shit in a corner and be playing with that instead.. because they have no direction from others.. personally ive never read a tutorial on training games ever.. i would say cracking is more long winded than training and you certainly need to know a whole lot more about how a system works and by these criteria alone i would obviously say cracking is harder though i do see both challenges the same, its just that if i fail at training an option ive only spent a day or 2 at most on trying to break it.. cracking, when u fail u tend to have wasted weeks... certainly a massive sway in which way i went in the scene. The great crackers were the ones with the resolve to pick themselves up after those failures.. at least thats how i see it :) ..

agreed, my bar may be a bit too high, sheep and probably others know why,
and Synaesthesia i have nothing to prove to you at all, and i cant see why you took the statements personally... sheep is right in many respects, and i do find myself agreeing with him (which is something he and i didnt always do).. quality control scene wise has dropped heavily, bad cracks, crap trainers and so on... so maybe my bar hasnt dropped, perhaps the quality has...

Ahh good didnt want to come over and slap you with Whitey, hes awfully fat to carry about :P

@sheep: I say only this - FindWindowA (that's like 1998) and WriteProcessMemory(?) in a DLL (gc.dll). Keep on digging in that "room" of yours. Took you guys a while to ban me :)

@TippeX: No need to prove anything, man ;) Just by reading some of your posts one would see how high your bar is. True sometimes a post doesn't reflect reality, but when you got like 1.733, it's out of the question to doubt it ;)

haha, trying to point out redundant code in something as mind numbingly basic as a trainer already shows what a complete fuckwitt you really are, and yes findwindow is old.. thats because my trainer code hasnt changed in about 10 years, the fact you DONT know why i use writeprocessmemory inside my dll also made me laugh out loud, if you tried training something once in a while (from this fucking era) and stopped wasting your life on these forums (and games NOONE PLAYS!!!!) then you may understand why.

I make no attempt to cover my code or my hacks because to me these things are so fucking easy i dont think its needed, if i wanted to protect my stuff then you can beleive that assholes such as yourself wouldnt be able to have access to them, (gc.dll) hahah.. he knows my dll name.. well i think im dealing with a genius here..

pathetic.. last words to a moron who ASKS to be banned from a forum then comes back as a different name, nothing more needs saying.

Without taking sides: gentlemen, cool down, please!

I'm training what I can (based on my PC's computational powers) and am not looking for glory as some of you do, then rebel when people point out flaws in your code and ban them for that fact. Regarding the ban, it was about gamehacking.co.uk :D Anyway, stop being a hypocrite ("my trainers are never protected, so people can learn from them" <- haha - and how do you propose to learn, eh? by watching the design?). I can care less what's the reason for your API in the dll, but I know that once injected, a mere bp on WPM in game's memory breaks in the dll. I dare you to protect your stuff AT LEAST ONCE in such manner that the noob that I am can't decode crap in it. Why protect it? Simple - you can't learn from it anyway, cuz you bitch about it...

And what's wrong in training old games? You think everyone plays 2007 games nowadays? Hell no. People want hacks, trainers etc. no matter how they can get or use them. We complain that we don't like how options are trained or whatnot, when gamers can care less. The moment I get a decent PC, I will train 2007 games. Till that moment, drop the subject, cuz it's pathetic. It's like being a "PC racist"...

@Joe: Sorry, I'll cool down now :)

@ joe.. yeah no worries mate..

@sunbeam... fair point.. im not one to show off about having the latest pc fads because ive always been 3 steps behind everyone else in my upgrades, if you cant train todays stupidly power hungry games because of ur pc's lack of power then its not fair to bring that up as an insult. I enjoy kicking people but not when they havent got the means to defend themselves, in this case it being a good pc for u to train something new. I hate people who show off about having super computers, means shit at the end of the day if you dont have the talent to use it, this doesnt apply to gamers of course just reversers. Anyways.. im done with the silly insults.. life is far too short.

Don't take this the wrong way, sheep. But I kinda saw some humanity in the above post :D But yeah, not trying to be rude or something, do try to protect something of yours and let me have a go at it. I'll even record what I do to pass the protections. I mean it for fun, not for proving anything. Not being able to train the games the way you do (the sick way) doesn't mean I can't do other things :D I'm trying to evolve a bit - latest trainers I made are in C++ (I admit I learn from old sources and update the code with new methods, and I'm not lame to deny that I do get help from people that CAN CODE :D - plus I can share the code if anyone wants it - see DFX trainer in this section...). The only thing I regret though is not being able to play BioShock (love System Shock 2 to death!) *sniff sniff*

Problems with protections are time (lots of time to develop a good scheme fit for ur purposes) and compatibility.. tricks used to gain access or control to create better protections are becoming fewer with each OS(just look at all the bullshit securom and starforce had because of compat problems with complex schemes). Its hard enuff getting people to use your trainers on the right version let alone having a thousand people complaining because its crashing their systems, i have atm no way of testing any protections i could create on multiple platforms which i see as a major flaw and wouldnt put out a product i didnt know was 100%. There are thousands of utilities that protect your programs from debugger use and dumping etc etc.. perhaps ill use one of those one day soon to see how compatible they are.. and if u can get past something as basic as that THEN i will look into my own protections.. though i must warn u it wont be soon.. last time i tried protecting my trainers i ended up spending 9 months with a group of virus coders , i wrote a few tutorials actually, wish i could fine them on the net :( (if u really want to protect ur stuff virus code is the place to start) unfortunately its a HUGE!! and VERY VERY interesting place to be and u can easily get lost in its methods.. to the point where i nearlly gave up training to pursue virii (non malicious of course). One of my favorite methods to stop people bping etc was to use their respective vectors to store data that would be corrupted by any outside influence thus rendering the program useless. At the moment ive got a lot of catching up to do.. im about 70% done coding my new site.. and still need to start training something :) but u have sparked my interest again in the old protection issues.. we shall see how things go and hopefully ill have time in the near future.

Yep the old Olly dumping trick wont work if Sheep whacks on some decent protection :P


And ive seen your DIB tuts floating about sheep, along with a few of the older games, like AoE2.

He should progress with the "heavier stuff". Only problem is it involves too much writing and it's freaking dynamic, since the method would definitely change from game to game, thus spawning more questions from people that read the tut than answering them :) It's all good though. And DAB, no one said I have to dump something to be able to reverse stuff. Target's already unpacked in memory, and if that doesn't help, you can also work your way to its loading and take notes. Another way - inlining, baby :)

Sorry for the big-ass off-topic O_O....

i tell u what.. show me u can reverse the securom protection (which ive done) and explain to me ur methods.. and then ill take u seriously enuff to want to code something u couldnt break. I suggest one of the newer versions as it would be closer to methods id use to protect my work.

Sounds interesting. Full rebuild or Fairlight/Reloaded method? :P

EDIT just saw the "reverse", not crack.

@sheep: Haha. Expected you to be this incisive :) Nah, have never dealt with SecuROM, but same thing happened even before other protections I mastered. People telling me I can't break this and that, and with enough drive and dedication, I did it. My aim isn't game protections, but software ones. Am not making NO-CDs, but cracks/inlines/patches :) Just cuz you're sheep isn't enough of a motivation to start up analyzing SecuROM (messin' with you :p) If you've managed to break SecuROM, then try some others - Armadillo, Themida, ASProtect (recently bought by StarForce) :)

@caki: Sure, jump on my back ;) Hold tight though :D

Just remember Sun he can have anti-debugging code running at the same time the trainer is running, or ran withing a debugger itself.

Then you cant have a peaksies at what is lurking about :P

Unless........

...you can run a driver and forget about your worries ;) Give him more ideas, he's going to compile them in one big dedicated CrackMe. Love CrackMes...

Bah, again with the off-topics T_T :D

i sure hope you aren't trying to compare securom, starforce or safedisc for that matter to crap like armadillo, themida and asprotect... doing so would really show you havent got a clue about prots.....

Now TippeX, Asprotect and Armadillo and Safedisc might be crap, but I have a certain warm spot in my heart for Themida (and a legit license to boot :D ) so I would like to argue that when Themida is used properly, it can be as effective as the afore-mentioned CD protections :)

@TippeX: StarForce BOUGHT ASProtect, so it's not "crap" ;)

Thats not necessarily because of protection quality... could be they wanted tips on licensing, or compression...

Hehe. They bought it for the virtual machine ;) Lately they've been owned by the scene groups. We'll see what the next version will bring up-front :D...

..... thats just stupid. Asprotect VM is nothing special, never was, and I was under the impression that SF had a ring 3 VM from looooong ago. Besides, anyone and their mom can crack Asprotect :rolleyes:

True. Perhaps they've found something interesting, some hidden potential in it that only time will reveal :D I'm not so sure you can reverse with ease ASPR v2.4 SKE (yes, it does exist)...

No I'm just a stupid noob who struggles to unpack cexe with debug.com. But thats not the issues here. The point I am trying to make is that the SF devs would have to be retarded to fall down to the security level of ASPR.

Here: http://www.star-force.com/protection.phtml?c=83&id=1097

Anyway, this is going too far, lol. Stick to main thread - S.T.A.L.K.E.R. :D Sun, out...

...
I've never denied that Aspr was purchased by Starforce.................

Just in case you were looking for tips on "why the devs would buy such a thing" ;) Chillax...

I might be retarded, but I don't see a single thing in that article where Starforce is saying why they bought ASPR...

man.. again not trying to be offensive.. but from this little discussion its clear you have no idea what your talking about sunbeam (u slip back into that old habbit of chatting shit that noobs would be scared of when u drop names here and there but ur not dealing with noobs and you make yourself look VERY silly).. as tippex says your trying to compare protections that are generations behind game protections, such as armadillo.. are u so niave to think that these arent a young crackers FIRST port of call? ive reversed (NOT CRACKED that would imply distribution) all of the protections you have mentioned above and your trying to compare them to the complexity of STARFORCE thats just nonsensical.. ALL i ask is that u show a little proof.. shit.. id settle for a nice sd3 explanation of what its actually protected by.. how the encryption routines work, and before you go on about well, i might not know what it does, ive got dlls i created to reverse and dump doom3 so unlike you with all your talk i can prove what ive done. SHIT!! id even settle for an edited DLL (im sure u will find which one) that removes the debug protection, which is actually ur first task in the reversing process, get this far.. ill be super impressed.. and this ISNT cus its SHEEP asking u to do it.. its as simple as u backing up ur own bullshit of (ANYTHING I WANT TO DO I CAN!!!) so go to it mitnik.

hehe, anyone who really knows me , knows i dont give two fucks about what anyone else thinks of me or my grammer or absolutely anything, so your telling me that because there is no apostrophe there you cannot comprehend what it says?..uh-ho no apostophe..must go no further ..stop!! call the grammer police..ha! :rolleyes:so funny man, if the only think you can get me on is a few missing commas and apostrophe's then iam doing ok :p

I didn't play Doom 3 (ever). I don't do grammar, it was aimed at a different thing - when people report flaws in your work, you ban them (or was that just cuz I am sunbeam the noob?). "Anyone who knows you" - you people act like a retarded closed-up invite-only "community". Whenever one of you says something, there's 3 others to back that one up, even if 100 others think you are awfully wrong. caki, stop twisting my words, and just read the article - it might not state why they bought ASPR, BUT IT STATES they did BUY it - which is the first thing you doubted when I opened the discussion T_T. Seriously, why would a game protection company buy another protector's patents? Just for fun?...

bought it for compression, cos they dont seem to be upxing anymore....

erm.. sunbeam.. i didnt play doom3 EVER either.. not in the sense of actually PLAYING it, i imagine very few reversers do play the games they inspect because for us its the protection that is the game not the game itself. You dont even need to RUN the GAME, being able to get your dump to the main game menus would be enuff, not for a working 100% project but enough to prove you knew what u were doing so u wouldnt even need a computer capable of running it well. So ill say no more on the matter until ur report lands on my desk :)

@Synaesthesia: This is NOT the Chat forum so, please, stop the off-topic chatting!

One last post Joe, then I won't come back to this thread ever again.

heh good points ;)