Not to mention they decide what software you may have installed on your computer. Does the box state you cant have daemon tools as part of its specs? Dont be surprised if they also start blacklisting websites. "You have visited www.fileforums.com, sorry you can no longer play the game."

Naaaaarrrrrr! they wouldent do that................................would they????

Well, I can see class action law suits happening if they continue to push such boundaries. Again the government isn't doing anything, but we already pay taxes on recordable media and burners to pay them for the privilege of making backups. That doesn't stop them from taking our rights away still. Sound unlawful to me... :slant:

There's looks to be a "media/technology" war coming up methinks...

Starcrap
 

StarForce breaks one of the basic laws which is the right to backup applications (even dictionaries!) and games which I had purchased LEGALLY. BOYCOT STARFORCE!

I do not have to add something, just wanna push a little (Grumpy! that would have been your job :D).
I am interested in other opinions.

How's about a sticky for this post?

Okay, I just had a dispute with a very good friend of mine, who is a lawyer. I really get sick and tired of discussing this stuff...so here are my final words: :D

Music industry has almost learned its lesson. Incompatible Audio CDs are just not acceptable for legetimate customers. I personally do not have a CD Player (Standalone) anymore, cos they are far to expensive compared to DVD players. Some of my original audio cds simply refused to run on my dvd standalone (cos it used a pc dvd rom). I didn't return them (some of my friends did, after backing it up with clonecd!)...I just copied them with clonecd and thus circumvented european law...just to listen to the music I LEGALLY bought.....Meanwhile I cannot find many audio cds that actually have a copy protection...which play in every player I own (car cd changer, home dvd player, discman, etc.....GOOD!!!!!).

On the other hand, video industry is running into the same problem the music industry used to be in some years ago. Meanwhile, there are DVDs which refuse to play in standalone dvd players (greets to ArccOS, etc.). Is this really necessary ? People start to return dvds to store... I assume there will be some new protections...and some day, when problems due to copy protection increase rapidly, the protection will be gone.
In this case AnyDVD was of great help for me. I bought "The Forgotten" which didn't play fluently on my DVD standalone. AnyDVD is forbidden in Germany...but hey, I bought it..and I want to watch it. AnyDVD did the job, i.e. it got rif of the silly protection...

Finally, we come to games, and I think, "game protectors" will never learn. Okay, I see a DVD or a audio cd is only around 15 € and a new game is almost 50 @ and up, but in my opinion the price is not important.

I buy all my games, DVDs and audio cds. I do not see any need for backing them up (exception: Audio CDs, cos I use them fairly often in different places, e.g. in my car, at home, on vacation). I don't regularly watch a movie 20 times a week, so the dvd won't get '"hurt". I sometimes use nocd cracks, just bceause I am too lazy to swap disks all the time. But that is just convience and I cannot expect that a backup does as well as an original.
BUT... what I can expect is, that an original runs on a system it was actually developed for (i.e. a dvd runs on a dvd player, a audio cd can be listened to in every cd/dvd HI-FI component, and finally any game runs fine on my computer, as far as I have the neccesary system specs, like CPU speed, Graphics card, etc.).

Here comes starforce's special hour. Every effective protection has broken standards (e.g. CDS for audio cds, you cannot call this audio cd anymore; ArccoS, see above; or Starforce....).

I know, that SecuRom7 also has almost nothing to do with any standard, but Starforce is miles ahead...
--> Quote from Starforce Nightmare developres:
"Since starforce version 3.4.65.09 to prevent old star**** methods for deactivating
cd drives starforce goes a very hardware incompatible way. StarForce protected game tries
to reset ide channel before it begins to check protected disk. Therefore this can take up
to 2 minutes before starforce begins with its disk check. All users, who have CD
drive on SCSI controller, ATAPI CD Drive on ATA/RAID controller, CD drive on USB controller
and even coming hardware innovation called CD drive on SATA controller, all those users are
involved by this hardware incompability issue of Starfore protection. This hardware
incompability appears even than, if you remove all your drives from IDE channel physically
and deactivate your IDE channels in BIOS to set needed resources free, also you don't even
need to use our program to find it out."
(If you have read so far, don't hesitate to begin your answer with: "Yepp, you are right Monty")
I know that SafeDisk, SecuRom, etc. install drivers on my system too, but none of them is that aggressive like the Starforce one.....

I know, there are a lot of people saying that they had no problem with Starforce.....just wait a little....
The first audio cd,dvd or game protections didn't harm me either, but the day will come!

Monty... Gotta tell you that was pretty d*mn nice written! I'm proud of you.. ;)
The part about music and video made me think a little and as I thought I suddenly realized I stopped using CD's years ago. Haven't even thought about it because as soon as I buy any new CD I rip it as it comes through the door.
This started because my portable CD-player wouldn't play some original discs but all burned discs I threw at it. Nowadays it is my mp3-player that needs the music.
But back on the starforce topic (its the point of the thread right? :D ).
I have bought 2 Starforce games and I managed to get them working on my second PC. It refused to work on my gaming rig for some reason. Ever since there is no starforce for me.

Long story short, monty I couldn't agree more :) (if it is something to be happy about :confused: )

Thanx!

After rereading the thread I am not entirely sure about this :D

Yep.
Not really.

I am also never buying a starforce protected game ever again. I brought I-Ninja (which I didn't know had starforce V3 protection until recently) and since installing the game my system has been very unstable and constantly crashing. So today i downloaded the starforce cleaner and surprise, ive had no problems whatsoever since, whereas before it would crash 4 or 5 times each hour.

I think starforce is BS, those A******S need to stop putting this crap on games.

SF can make your sytem unstable that is for sure. The protection itself does not have anything to do with any standards.

Again: If developers want to protect their software, they should always have in mind that an average customer should be able to use their soft without any problems. Customers in trouble are customers in search (for alternativrs!). I like protections which protect software frome being stolen, but they should not be recognized by legitimate customers!

@Monty Burns
Yes very well written mate. ;)

Hi guys,

A few weeks ago, in one of the threads, I suggested someone to not upgrade to the very latest nVidia Forceware drivers as they're causing instabilities on my Windows XP system: after playing a game, opening Control Panel's Add or Remove Programs function or launching a DVD in Cyberlink PowerDVD causes a "BAD_POOL_CALLER" blue screen of death.

For this reason, I downgraded to Forceware 67.66 or something about two or three weeks ago but the crashes still occurred during the next one or two weeks. Then something came to my mind and I removed the Starforce drivers with their own utility. Guess what, no crashes for the last week!

So, if someone tells me that the Starforce drivers cause no system stability problems, all I can say "F*CK OFF!"

Joe

the nvidia drivers also cause a nice crash in softice.. makes you wonder what nvidia are playing at, quite suspicious.. downgrade the drivers, all is fine

Well, TippeX, yeah, the next step of the test would be upgrading to the latest Forceware drivers again. I have the feeling, the crashes won't come back; it's probably not the Forceware drivers causing it but Starforce!

The way nvidia may crash or not work properly is the same with Starforce. Nvidia main chipset, nforce have no public chipset specs, so it is so difficult to program something for non public and unknown micropics. The same happens to Starforce, cause when trying to access with certain bad coded instructions, win return a big BSOD, an exception.

SF crash cause it tries to access almost to everything in ur system, to get ride of it and control it. When it can`t, then system gets unstable. Anyway, thats a soft problem, and not like the worst one, a drive death, the final effect of having SF installed on ur system. Lets see how many drives must dead to people have knowledge of what SF is doing.

Sice and SF are incompatible, cause SF works in ring0 level, and a debugger too ( specially sice), so it can only be one at once working: sice or SF, but not both. There is a pretty warn when trying to launch a SF protected title, but if u override such warn, cross ur fingers, a boom is near.....

I do not like SF for its drives secondary effect and windows bad working: lets wait...

The only piracy I support is the one practiced inside Sid Meyer Pirates!, but Starforce is not the answer for software piracy. As a legal costumer I am suffering for the wrongdoings of others. After 3 Starforce games, two of them giving me serious problems (had to return them and spent quite a few hours around my system), I am going to give them a wide berth.

Besides, take for instance Paradox Entertainment, a small swedish software developer: to generate lots of money a game don't need to be protected at all... it just needs to be good. ;)

Buy Europa Universalis 2 or Hearts of Iron 2 or Crusader Kings...

Yes, as John Carmack (ID Software) ever said: Quality software is the best protection ;)

no more starforce
 

ok, I'm not gonna buy any starforce protected games anymore.
cya

Some considerations
 

Hi guys, sorry for my english but I'm italian. I've been checking this forum for months before I decided to post something (how great is the power of Starforce :D ).
I have been playing gamez since 1992, and I see that in these years they've become a BIG BIG BUSINESS. And where's the money, there comes a trouble! :eek:
Too many gamez, too high prices, too much generous reviews (=too many "must buy" gamez) and , last but not the least, hyper-aggressive protections. The truth is, pc gaming was, it's still and it will forever be a hard matter if compared to consoles' easy-gaming. I don't think a honest-but-normal customer would spend thousands of euros (or dollars as you prefer) for the hardware and then fall into the deepest despair by seeing that some f@*#ing protections is devastating his system.This is a paradox: a guy who buys an original games have more problems than a warez kiddie.
Also, we should consider that a 6 to 18 years old guy often cannot afford a price of 50 euros for a game (while, with the same money, he can download a lot of stuff, including gamez from the net, I know this isn't the right way of thinking, but this is REALITY); so, you say gamez are not necessary to live, I agree but nothing related to entertainment is, so the common way of thinking is: if you can have them for free, why not).
In the end, I would like to remember that, even if it was possible to release a new starforce version every day, pirates would always have TONS of games to play with, choosing among old games, new-but-not-starforce-protected games and almost-new-starforce-protected-but-already-cracked games.
Cracking games is just a matter of time.
So, what are they waiting to cut the prices? By the way, isn't it primarily a problem of money?

Here comes the trouble!
 

Ok, guys, now I'm getting reaaly angry. A few days ago I re-installed DTM Race Driver 2 just to have a decent run with a decent car (why not to try GTR? Cuz it's Starforce again, no more for me too! :) ) and today my drive refused to backup the backup :D of Forgotten Realms: Demon Stone. The curious thing is that I created that back-up after formatting, just about three weeks ago. Then I installed the game without any problem from the same disc.
Another strange fact, alcohol gave me errors in different sectors from one time to another. Don't know why, I start feeling the stink of Starforce: these are the things that typically drive a guy into the crazy-warez-world....
Ok, let's have a "succesfull system install" again: Sometimes I can't really afford the thought that I can't play with masterpieces like Scrapland, Colin 2005 and Street Racing Syndicate (Still Life?) but if this is the price to pay for playing a starforce game, ok then, where is the petition? Where do I have to sign? :mad:

@Duke Nukem
Its never a good idea to create a backup from a backup! Always backup from the originals.

@ Grumpy

THX for the advice, man, you're damn right. But it is too late! :eek: The holy fire of purification has already burnt away the f@#*in' starforce virus from my pc! And, of course, alcohol went through the "backup of the backup" :D .
One final consideration: this is not the end of piracy, as someone said, this is really the end of games. :(

Anyone heard the latest?
As you know the new Windows XP64 final is out. In tests all games worked flawlessly and looked spectacular that was all except.....except......yes starforce games would not load. Hehehehehehehehe! What a bummer uh! :D

Can you give us a link for that news ? We would like to read it too :)
Thnx

SF has already 64bit support, if u do not know something do not talk on it on public ;)

Well its not strange to me that such thead started here. 95% of visitors cant emulate or crack SF or have serious problems doing that, and often kill your systems after such tryes, and such petition will be some kined... mmm a vent for anger of those who can't...

Yes! many of us want to play SCCT, but not spend money on it. But there is a f*ing starforce prevents us from doing that! And there is no crack yet! (Hey hackers!!! Where r u???) And yu know ppl SCCT is a BIG title and im shure that the best "specialists" working on it. So... no crack - what we have to do? Lets smear SF and get some relax...

I know that SF has problems with compatibility, and many users who legally buy the game want play but cant - but you know where most of such ppl talks? There, and not here. And there is too little SF ralated topics.

go on

(sorry for enlish - not native)

You have my total support here, the one Starforce game I did install (Unwittingly) totally screwed my PC, & I only sorted that one with a format.
You can add X2: The Threat to your list as well. (All versions except US)

-Leezer-

Egosoft have got a new patch for download that removes the protection from the game apparently they where asked to remove it by the publishers, so no more starforce for X2 and hopefully none for X3..

Sorry but I make a practice of not talking to rude 3 year olds.

I didn’t bookmark "I know I should have done" , but if you just do your own search for "windows xp64 review". I stumbled on it by accident, it's the review of the final version and not the beta, and it was out of all the games they tried 2 wouldn’t load and both had SF.

I think the real name of "League Manager 2005[v3.4.50.1]" is "Championship Manager 2005" Im not sure about it ...

Sorry my bad english Im from Brazil.

PS: If u dont know what Im talking about, check the list on the first page :D

CYA

I will boycot Starforce until one or the other of us is dead. :p

I threw my Silent Hunter 3 game (my favorite) in the trash. I refuse to pass on malware so I didn't pawn it off on someone else.

Here's I little more information on starforce and how it effects you, handy for those who would like to know more.
http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/inde...hread&t=526623

I got that p*****d of with this crap that i just emailed star force telling them what i think about it. Message below

I am writing to complain about your so called Starforce V3 protection, it is the biggest pile of B*** S*** to ever be called a copy protection. How can this be classed as a suitable copy protection when all it does is F*** UP your PC. Since installing Starforce V3 games, ive had nothing but system problems. But amazingly they all disapeared after using sfclean. Like many others I certainly wont be buying any products with this bag of s*** on it. Isn't this protection Illegal? as it totally f***s with your system. If your going to make a copy protection at least make it so it works without f***ing up your PC!

Does Anybody think they'll reply :-D

Surely, they'll reply :D

The "creators" of starforce are not the problem. If a game is protected with starforce, they have already earned their money....no matter if customers buy the game or not.
If sf games remain in the shelves, developers will start thinking about it (okay, in fact they don't, cos they don't give a ****ing **** about customers as long as there are enough idiots buying their crap).

The only chance of stopping starforce, is boycotting it. But this will never happen.....at least not to a degree which would be remarkable....

Ahh the beloved star force
 

Ahhh the beloved star force. Another moan and groan. and why not ?. Well im happy to say that i have not installed ANY starforce protected games on my PC and thats compleatly down to the info i am privy to here as a fileforum member. Its thanks to this place i have not made the mistake so many other ppl have made. I buy all my games and i also back EVERY SINGLE one of them up and i refuse to buy a game that once installed will fu(k up my chances of backing up other non starforce protected games as well as the genral well being of my PC. I dont have anything against a copy protection that makes backing up one of my original disks hard and a challange but what i do object to is having a so called copyprotection compleatly screwing with my PC and all backing up procedures that i will attempt in the future. My thanks go out to GCW F/F. Also thanks for the link that you sent me a while back Grumpy in a PM to the starforce info.

Ohh and yes i will continue to boycott any starforce protected game in the future. I wish enough of us would do the same and if the numbers got big enough dev's/publishers would realize but in reality thats not gonna happen. The worst thing i have had to deal with (as an avid gamer) is not having had the experience of "Splinter Cell 3. C.T" . Its my only regrett to not allowing any SF protected game on my PC. :(

0_o
who pays you guys? easy cracking macrovision or the same securom? ;)
the most content from varios forums that you quote here taking from StarForceNightMare readme. But we know (just look at SCCT results) that SF succesfuly beat SFN with out any system troubles. More than 100000 users, succesfuly play the game.
You thread one big LoL for ppl who knows... :D ;)

Now, we know ! :rolleyes:

Thank you for enlightening all the "small minded" kids here......

I begin to believe that you are one of the Starforce developers who tries to defend your own crap :rolleyes:

In a few words, it's sure that publishers should protect their software(PC Games) from illegal copying, but you should be capable of backing up the cds. A CD isn't a 100% indestructible thing. It may suffer severe damage either when it's in or out of the PC. That's why we should back them up. Not to mention that the costumer's support is not satisfying. Especially in countries like Greece, where after the purchase, no support is available.
So the sure thing is that they must do something about the protections, so I don't have to be anxious, because I have to play my vidoe games with the original disk.
I have a starforce game, silent hunter 3, and unfortunately I can't back it up. That's why I stopped playing it.
I am boycotting Starforce Games!!!...