I wonder if those companies that have dropped starforce will release patches to remove it from those titles that were protected by it?

boycote, no starforce in my system.
In fact all the copy protection schemes IMO are dubious and abusive, because when you buy one game, you are not buying only the game itself, you buy the box, the media (CD / DVD) and so on... and you have every right to copy/backup any part of the product - it's yours you have paid - for your personal use.
For example, when I was in the university, I often copy my own books (that I have bought) just to study, because I like to write and cut pages... so I still have the originals nice and cleans...
Other point is that a copy protection scheme that makes you to have the CD on drive to play the game is demaging the drive - CD/DVD drives are like commom lights they have a certain number of hours of life...
Finishing a key code, IMO is the only legit scheme of copy protection - I can have 1000 copies but I only have one code...

@dr_psikick
This is a common misunderstanding as you 'never' really own the game. When you purchase the disc etc you actually only purchase the licence to play that game on 1 pc at a time. You dont technically own the actual game itself.
I know this sounds stupid but thats how it is. ;)

Yes, you have the right to use the game (with tons of limitations, see the EULA for the details) but you never get the copy- and intellectual rights of the game.

See chips in cars. As far as I've been told, their firmware is also copy protected (at least, by the law) and you may get into legal trouble if you provedly changed it without the manufacturer's agreement (besides losing the guarantee of the car, of course). You may use it as you received it but you may NOT reverse engineer it, change it, copy it (partially or fully), resell it etc. etc.

Laws trump the EULA. AFAIK, USA law has recognized things like the right to make a copy for archival purposes, the right to resell and the right to reverse engineer regardless of what the EULA says.

@Mason
Yes in some countries this is very true but (and I quote Joe's wording on this)you still.......

Yeah, I'm sure are a few countries where authorities don't give a fuck about intellectual property and copyrights. However, software companies don't sell much software there either as they actually COULDN'T.

I would assume that China is today the greatest software pirate on the planet. Not only because of the sheer number of citizens but also the weird government that is 1) anti-capitalist but 2) - not surprisingly! - open for new technology, including hardware and software, because that makes them money. (Please, don't get me wrong, I'm not against China in any way... They are great people, with their own Red Flag Linux for the government's use, YEAH! :))

E.g. in Hungary, laws concerning copy- and intellectual rights of software are going to change to more strict as this is mandatory for the EU membership. I don't wish to comment on that because time - however long it takes, though - will show the truth anyway...

starforce must be illegal
 

i never buy starforce games i hate this protection
i want to know if they say in the game box that the game is starforce protected so i will never be fooled...

:mad: starforce may die ...
were all with you guys
gl

To, surprise you then as USA caused approximately 7 Billion dollar loss(highest) on piracy rather than China's 4 billion.This is ofcourse a figure given by Global Software Piracy Study.This is solely because USA's markets are so big that even small piracy markets amongst them cause huge losses.Still however the piracy rates in USA are quite low about 21% in 2005.

Estimating lossed money based on pirated software is just dumb. Let me make an example.

Here's John Doe, he's a 17 year old kid that buys all games he likes. Yes thats fine and good. However, he also downloads a lot of games and applications becaues he can not afford them all. Or afford them AT all. Lets say he downloaded 3d studio max from the net, because there is no way he could afford that. However he wants to learn 3d rendering and therefore will do it somehow.

Lets say that 3d studio max would NOT be piratable (aka uncrackable). Would John ever use it then? Most likely not as he can not afford it. How can it be a loss for a software company if the person never would have the possiblity to get it legally anyway?

I am not defending piracy in any way. It is wrong. But the way they make up numbers and how much they "loose" is just wrong. Potentioal loss for something that never would happen makes it sound a lot more serious. When in reality the actual loss is much smaller even if there of course is a lot of pirates that could afford the software or would use it in a company.

Same goes for movies and games. John is still in the game here. He buys all games he likes and supports the companies that he thinks deserves it. Ok, thats good in a way. But would John be able to decide wich games to buy? Would he be forced to buy and after that see if the game is worth having or if it is just waste of money. Some product made by a company with a cool cover and only to get some easy cash. Thats where the biggest problem is IMO. Demos are getting rare, atleast they are not as many as a few years ago. But if John would not have downloaded a few of those games, he never might have bought them either. Or he could've bought a few games that he just hates but can't refund for a new one that he might like.

Movies, John goes to the cinema every now and then to see some great movies. However he also downloads a few. Perhaps he downloads a lot of movies he never would've gone to the cinema for. Maybe because they are bad or perhaps because they are unknown in his country. If there is a movie he really likes he might get it on DVD when released. If he downloaded a movie he never would've payed for in the cinema there is no loss for there either. What could've happen is that he never would've seen the movie and not put any money into it anyway. Or he might like it and decide its worth buying wich he otherwise may have thought it was not.

To go a little further, we can look back in time. 20-30 years ago, even 40 years. People copied cassettes all the time, traded cassettes with music taped from the radio. Even made copies of LP's and sold through ads in papers or similar. Noone was as active hunting down them back then even if it in reality was almost as easy as getting music now.

With that said I'll leave the discussion for now (gotta go to sleep and don't feel like typing anymore :p).

Well put kosmiq. John Doe downloads them off the net, but he never would have paid for "X" game anyhow.

The industry needs to change.. make things as affordable as they could be and sell more! Instead of Preventing Piracy which creates a culture against your product.. embrace open-source and the like...

Oh well.. the people who make these decissions don't read the forums anyhow.

you hit the nail on the head there with selling games cheaper

if the original cost is about the price of a cd/dvd then say cost of distribution marketing .blah blah blah

then why does it cost someone like say joe blogg down the road about 50pence to make a dvd

why does it cost £30 to sell it and if thats a million copies then surely its gonna be big profits and just a case of being greedy and not looking after the costumers

cost of a game in my eyes should be around about 5-10 pounds

then it would sell more and everyone would be happy :D

Again, please, note that the vast majority (about 95% or more!) of the profit goes to the publisher and the vendor; only the rest goes to the developers! And that's not enough because (at least, part of) the copyright belongs to the publisher, too. So, the publisher 1) expropriates the intellectual material of the developer AND 2) rips them off by sucking away most of the actual profit. And the reason: the developers cannot make a living while they're developing the software so they need to borrow money from the publisher in the meantime, have themselves sponsored. But they pay back that money multiple times!

The same goes with most other things, even including agricultural products: traders get the money, while the farmer/manufacturers do the harder part of the job. This is how capitalism works: unfairly.

Sorry,
 

but you are right. :eek:

i hate SF protection and i will boicott all games in the list.
simply i hate that i can't make a back-up of my Second Sight and i won't buy two copies of it.
and i really dislike softwares that install something that i don't want on my system.
i will boycott StarForce games

There is absolutely no way I will ever buy a Starforce protected game. I don't care how good it is !!!!

I once installed Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Chaos Theory and it slowed my CD/DVD drive down to nothing !!!

Once bitten twice shy... if its Starforce protected its not worth the risk of installing. Anyone who has had this experience will tell you the same.

There is always another game !!!

After installing SH3 (a game with starforce) i've problems:
- Computer has slow down
- Once in a while a blue screen
- errors saying that i don't have enough intern mermory

So now i'm boycottin Starforce

Starforce was installed on my comp and it messed up my dvd burner. Never buying a starforce protected game again.

Yes, I am boycotting Starforce games
 

Yes, I am boycotting Starforce games

My system started running strange and I had not even heard of starforce. I found info on it after searching for my system symptoms on the internet. Come to find out Starforce had installed by either a game or demo without my knowledge. It is also annoying now to spend time downloading a demo, going through the install process and then being prompted about starforce. At the very very least, starforce installation should be listed as one of the requirements in the system requirements of the game.

I have gone a step further and cancelled my fileshack account. I feel that they should in some way tag what demos contain starforce and will not continue to use their service until they do. It is bad enough that a game will install Starforce but a DEMO!!!!! Thats just stupid.

I realize that this post is getting huge but I thought I'd add my two cents. Before reading this post I knew very little of starforce and the evilness behind it. I was just aware that it was a form of copy protection but I do realize now it is much more than that. I bought the game Breed and installed it without even realizing it was on the dreaded starforce protected list. What are we supposed to memorize this list when choosing a pc game to buy? After installing I have noticed very weird quirks about my system first being that the starforce somehow messed with my file associations when I tried to doubleclick the DVD drive my Audio cd was inserted in. It said there was no file association attached to it. I specifically remember that when I used to doubleclick the drive with an audio CD inserted it opened in Winamp, my music player of choice. So I quickly downloaded the Starforce clean program from this post and *hopefully* removed this starforce driver from my system. My question that I hope someone can answer is "How do you know for sure if starforce has truley been completely uninstalled from your system." Reformatting is NOT an option. Thanks.

The problem, I think, with most EULA agreements is they don't actually state you are agreeing to the copy protection used or that the program uses copy protection. You are only agreeing to the terms and conditions for the program code to run the game.

Since most commercial copy protections are licenced from 3rd party developers, when installing a copy protected game there is no EULA between you and the maker of the copy protection, so if it is installed without any consent and the program does not run because the copy protection does not like deamon tools or whatever the copy protection maker arbitarily dictates you can't have on your system, how can you agree to the EULA for program code you can't run because the undisclosed copy protection won't let the program code run?

Anyone legally minded have an opinion?

fight 4 ur right
 

no matter what kind of tec goods i buy there is always a technology and or law that want me 2 regulate the uze of. i just want 2 buy music for example and get rootkits and non-redbook bullshit! i wont pay with buggy or incompatible money. so i have 2 fight 4 a reasonabl balance between the interests of the right owners somewhere and mine.
and if there is any that want make me believe i am ganster like just because of a backup or private copy - get lost!!

starforce should be banned

though barryb mate

im looking at my splinter cell 3 chaos theory dvd box

which has starforce v3 elite

and nowhere on it does it mention starforce.

so your comment is right mate i think that after all the other shit they write on the box they could atleast add a line that states the protection the game uses.

or a icon on the front stating it

powered by starforce
powered by safedisc.
powered by securom

it wouldnt take up any more ink or anything and would be more convenient.

I agree. It should be an icon there. Also I see lately an increase of programs that are just installed on your hard drive.No questions asked. DirectX, Net Framework, gamespy arcade, Xfire. Just to name a few. Maybe I don't want all that. Maybe I do have the latest DirectX or the latest Net Framework. Maybe I am an antisocial person who doesn't like programs like Xfire or Gamespy Arcade.

What happened with asking what I want to install? A readme which would state that the game actually needs at least version x of the program z should suffice.
Supreme Commander installed a lot of c.ap without asking.What the hell is wrong with those people.Maybe I don't want to play the game online.

Maybe I just want to play the SP campaign and go back to some MMORPG i play, game that I bought being fully aware that I will play it only online.Maybe I don't like the Gamespy Arcade or any other of those services.

I'd like back the custom install, just because it gives me at least the illusion of choice.I always used the custom install, but lately that option just disappeared and that makes me angry. After all I pay for my games, I should have the right to decide what I want on my PC or not:(

The nearest I've seen in any manual to admitting copy protection is this satement in the Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones manual:

"NOTICE: This game contains technology intended to prevent copying that may conflict with some CD-RW, DVD-RW and virtual drives."

but never mentions Starforce by name!!

Starforce COULd have been good if it wasn't f*cking up everyones hardware and windows, so I say: Yes, I am boycotting the Starforce protection system!!

aparently this issue was solved with starforce v4

i havent seen it and i doubt any program that has starforce v4 will run on my system anyways

so its just starforce v4

and you can do a manual install by selecting the custom install option during installation.

i think safedisc and securom v7 are the best protections

especially securom v7 its a damn good protection dosnt cause any ssystem slow down

doesnt add drivers to the system and is just all round good

i have alot of repect for the folks who created securom and i have even more respect for the crackers who crack it.


im afraid without crackers the gaming industry could be naming there price for games as it is now they cant because then it would encourage more crackers.

Well, as far as I know, SecuROM 7 does add drivers to the system, it's just that they aren't running all the time, unlike with Starforce 3...

nah, the securom 7 drivers was dropped ages ago, unused afaik, same with the 'user service'...
safedisc also uses drivers, but again, not running all the time which i think is fine, permanent drivers running when there is no need for them to run (especially 'suspicious' ones like the starforce ones) however i dont like, especially when they can interfere with rmps etc.. (and there are also reports of the starforce drivers doing 'funny' things if they think the user is 'messing about' ie: trying to copy a disk etc...)...

starforce drivers are run all the time (even loaded very early in the windows boot stage) because they reroute int 3 and int 1 for their own use (as well as stopping softice from working etc).. int 3 mainly used in their 'virtual file system' crap...

yer its a fucker of a protection

and drivers for securom was dropped back in securom v5 i think

and safedisc drivers have to prove me any no harm

i didnt even know they existed.


i reckon if we all sued the software companies that use starforce we'd win and they'd go broke LOL

you cant blame the starforce developers because there just supplying a demand and therefore its up to the software companies whether they use it all not.

soft**** fucks should be sued.

Thanks to StarForce and the lack of any warning on the box that it has that virus...er....I mean so-called "protection" included with the program, I don't bother buying ANY PC games anymore. I can't be bothered with checking lists or whatever just to see if a game has SF in it or not.

simplest way to to check for a crack first

if you install a starforce game you just apply the crack

if u do it without restarting ot executing the games the drivers wont install

which is ofcourse good.

depends if the crack is a real crack, or a workaround within the starforce code (in which case starforce is still present..)