View Full Version : Serious problem with my Dual Channel RAMs
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3500+
Mainboard: GigaByte GA-K8NS Ultra-939
RAM: Corsair ValueSelect 2x 512 MByte PC3200/400 (Dual Channel)
Now i bought 2 additional RAM, excatly the same (Corsair.....)
Everything works fine, but now my RAM work only with 166 MHz instead of 200 MHz !!!
WHAT'S WRONG ???
(There is no setting in the BIOS to change this.)
Is it possible the second DDR RAM's are 333 instead of 400?
This would explain the drop in speed.
It doesn't look possible to change the speed of the RAM in the MIT(MB Intelligent Tweaker) in the bios.
You could try the 'Top performance' in the main bios settings, but I'd check the RAM before you try anything first.
Sometime pressing 'Ctrl' and 'F1' in the main bios menu gives extra options.
i have the same problem, 2 512 400ddr and it runs at 166 :/
That's a feature/issue/whatever of the Nforce Chipset. You have to live with it.
Is it possible the second DDR RAM's are 333 instead of 400?
This would explain the drop in speed.No, all 4 sticks are 400.
That's a feature/issue/whatever of the Nforce Chipset. You have to live with it.http://www.fileforums.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
Do you know, if there will be a firmware update to fix this, or is it impossible?
The problem is in the A64 memory controller (the one built into the CPU-core u know)... Currently it can only handle 4 DIMMs if they run at 166MHz.
Using 2xDIMMs gives the opportunity to run at 200MHz.
Future revisions off the A64 core/memory controller may allow 4xDIMMs @ 200MHz. But as it is now, thats a no go.
So it is not the nForce chip that is the problem, it is the memory controller (and as I said it is built in into the CPU).
I would suggest selling the 4x512mb DDR and buy 2x1024mb instead.
I would suggest selling the 4x512mb DDR and buy 2x1024mb instead.That would be a solution. I will think about it. :(
2x1GB will still run at 166, as the motherboard cuts the speed to ensure that possible data loss is kept to a very minimum.
yes cos i ran 2x512 and it still runs at 166
You can however set the speed manually in the BIOS, but that is not recommended, especially if you use cheap generic memory.
2x1GB will still run at 166, as the motherboard cuts the speed to ensure that possible data loss is kept to a very minimum.Real http://www.fileforums.com/images/smilies/confused.gifhttp://www.fileforums.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
yes cos i ran 2x512 and it still runs at 166Before i bought the second pair of rams, it was running on 200.
You can however set the speed manually in the BIOS, but that is not recommended, especially if you use cheap generic memory.The is no option to set the ram speed in my bios. http://www.fileforums.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
Whenever you install 2xDIMMs it is supposed to run at 200MHz no matter what the size is. As long as the RAM is made for 200MHz, it will run at that speed.
My nForce 2 Ultra 400 will run my 2x1024mb Corsair C2 at 200MHz just as my Asus A8N-Sli Premium.
As I said the memory controller is intergrated into the CPU and that is what is limiting the speed when using 4xDIMMs. Using 2xDIMMs will run at 200MHz if the modules are rated for that.
That's the way it is, I suggest you take a look in the bios on how the memory multipliers are set and if there is any bios that fixes any possible bug between the motherboard and the CPU.
Ahhh you think its running at 200, but It isnt..
Some motherboard will possibly allow upto 2GB (the more expensive, like the SLI board you have), but on a whole most motherboards after 1GB the speed will slow to 166.
Please take a look in the Asus forums if you feel like, there are several post regarding the issue with 2gb of rams built up by 4x512mb DDR. And also the solution to the problem -> Use 2x1gb DDR.
Want to know something? The only difference between the nForce 4 SLI and the nForce 4 Ultra is the fact that the SLI version has SLI unlocked and comes with SLI support directly. There are ways of unlocking some nForce 4 Ultra so that they support SLI.
Most Intel motherboards will not slow down the memory when getting over 1gb RAM. Had a intel rig which could handle 1.5gb ram without slowing it down. The only reason that it would slow it down would be because one of the modules is either defective or rated as 333MHz.
Please trust me on this, most, if not ALL, nForce 4 based motherboards will handle 2x1gb modules in 200MHz.
And what do you mean with "Ahhh you think its running at 200, but It isnt..". I can tell you that I know for fact that it runs at 200MHz. POST shows it does, any windows overclocking utility shows it does. I have enough experience with computers to know when something runs at the speed it should and when it does not. So please, accept the fact that nForce 4 and the A64 memory controller (it is still much much more depending on the CPU than the chipset when talking about the A64) can handle 2x1gb modules at 200MHz.
To go further and avoid more posts please consider this;
the memory controller is built into the CPU (as stated already), it has nothing to do with chipset limitations (chipset on the motherboard). Therefore it won't be any difference between different motherboards. Guess why no nForce 4 based system can handle 4x512mb modules running at 200MHz. Got a good guess? Well because it is the memory controller in the CPU that is the limiting factor. Therefore it won't matter if you buy Abit, Asus, DFI, Gigabyte or whatever the CPU is still the factor (the memory controller in it).
Now maybe something like "newer A64 CPU's has an upgraded and better memory controller and can therefore run 2x1gb modules at 200MHz" will come?
Truth is, there is a new memory controller. It is upgraded and it is better. But it has not changed when it comes to the memory setup in terms of number of modules. It has changed on how picky it is about ram. The new ones will accept cheaper brands of ram and run them better.
No offense is intended with this post, nor am I trying to make you look like a fool or anything similar. I am only telling you how it really is. If you feel offended report me or whatever... Still friends? :D
Edit: crap that was a long post
Sure were still friends, its called a debate :) nothing bad about that.
But, I do have my own PC shop and it doesnt matter what programs etc tell you, when using your memory to the max the speed will drop to 166. Trust me on that, ive been using debuggers etc and ive seen the memory speed drop.
64 bit boards are better at handling data transfer, so can use 200mhz speed, but on 32bit boards most (not all) will drop speed to 166. No matter what POST says.
Thank God for Intel, my 2 X 512mb PC3200 dual channel is running at 201MHz and that's confirmed in Sisoftware Sandra.
Mainboard Gigabyte 8IK1100(standing in for my 8KNXP), CPU FSB 200MHz(P4 3200MHz).
and my nForce 2 has the RAM running in 200MHz, trust me it does...
A good example to explain it better would be this...
You see a skinny guy giving people hassle on the street, you walk up thinking "Skinny guy not a problem ill just knock him out"
You go over to punch him, he turns round picks up a car and squashes you with it..
You go "Damnnnn Deceptively strong"
Moral: Appearances can be deceptive :P
A good example to explain it better would be this...
You see a skinny guy giving people hassle on the street, you walk up thinking "Skinny guy not a problem ill just knock him out"
You go over to punch him, he turns round picks up a car and squashes you with it..
You go "Damnnnn Deceptively strong"
Moral: Appearances can be deceptive :P
Hrmm.... Yes something like that... Buuuuut not in this case... :p
Well Kosmiq i will have to put down the fact ive been an Engineer for a long number of years, and know how things work.
It doesnt matter what Sisoft Sandra or any of these other programs say, they arent telling you in detail how the speed of the memory is fluctuating within a given time frame. All that they usually report is the speed located on the memory chips rom's.
There is good debugging software out there that can report the current speed of memory. Perhaps looking for those, and you will get a suprise :)
Well Sisoft Sandra and the like reports the speed the memory are currently running at.
Like this:
Setting the memory to run at 166MHz Sandra will show (to your surprise) 333MHz DDR. OMG how did that happen? No idea.
Setting the memory to run at 180MHz will result in? OMG 360MHz DDR as reported by Sandra, POST and even nVidia System Utility (that can be used for windows overclocking btw)
Setting the memory to run at 200MHZ will give the correct result... Guess what? 400MHz DDR how can that be? No idea must be magic somehow... All apps reports the same.
Setting the memory to run att 225MHz will give 450MHz output no matter what the checking utility is...
So there is either magic going or all apps will show wrong.
Please give me the name of a good debugger that will show me the info you say me to look at and I will gladly test it and give screenshots.
Sorry for being a little negative there, no pun intented just felt like writing like that... :p
As I said Sisoft Sandra will not report CURRENT frequency..
And dont use that tone, or ill reply back in that tone.
I said "sorry for being a little negative here"... :p
And please no pun intended I don't mean to be offensive or anything only that I can't reply in a good manner after a period of time...
Anyway, please name the deubugger and I will check it out.
Just search the net for realtime memory debuggers, there are a few.
Some motherboards come with a clocking utility that shows the current speed of the ram. Try that also.
Well actually nVidia System Utility is a realtime overclocking utility made for nForce 2 chipsets among others.
I took the liberty of supplying a few screenshots here simply to give proof.
http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload5/winxp2gbram.JPG
http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload5/nvidiasystemutil.JPG
As you can see I am currently using 2gb RAM on my nForce 2 motherboard as shown by windows, POST and so on.
About speed, as you can see on the second picture (nVidia System Utility) the RAM frequency is currently 399MHz DDR @ CAS 2 with the other timings as you can see on the picture.
nVidia System Utility is a program developed by nVidia and is free for download. It supports real-time monitoring of voltages, speed and temperatures. It also supports real-time changing of voltage, FSB, Timings and more.
Aha thats not the frequency im talking about..
So we are both right in our debate..
I was talking about bus speed from Memory to CPU ;)
Haha are you serious? We have been talking about different things the whole time? HAHA!!!!!
Then it is not strange that we had such disagreement... :D
Feels good to have that solved... :)
I had no idea the bus between CPU and mem was lowered when using 2gb of RAM on the other hand.
Now that this has been solved we can all be friends and nice again...
A little thought, lets say the communication between CPU and mem is 200MHz standard, gets lowered to 166MHz when using 2gb RAM then it should be easily solved by upping the speed to 201MHz.
On nForce 2 this speed is not changeable as far as I know but on the nForce 4 is should the HT-bus right?
Ok heres an example of an nforce user
My amd ASUS AK7NX8E-Deluxe motherboard (nForce 2) 2 Ram sticks of 512mb DDR400 each (Dual Channel). So in total 1024mb ram, when the pc starts, it says 1024mb memory running at 166mhz, ok correct me if im wrong, but i payed extra so it was ddr400 double channel so it did what it was meant to do, not for it to run at 166mhz, anything i can do about it?
I know its a risk, but have you updated the motherboard firmware?
Perhaps its a brand the motherboard doesnt like or know.
Is that the right model number for your mobo, should it be 'A7N8X-E Deluxe'?
What CPU have you got, not too hot on AMD but Intel has to have the CPU and memory at the same speeds.
ie PC3200 CPU 533 FSB, memory speed 333.
PC3200 CPU 800 FSB, memory speed 400.
Downloading th manual for the 'A7N8X-E Deluxe'.
Check if what your memory speed is set too in BIOS.
It can be set to 1:1, 1:2, 3:2, 4:5, 6:5 and a few more.
1:1 means that CPU fsb and memory speed will run at the same.
3:2 means that mem speed will be fsb*3 and CPU speed will be *2 or something like that.
Can't really remember how it was of the A7N8X Deluxe right now, but check the bios. There will be an option to set it. It might also be due to Automatic Options or something, set it to Advanced or User and change it.
That should do it, if that does not solve the problem take a look in the forums at www.nforcershq.com :)
You are right it's with the -E lol :P and the processor is an Athlon 2800+ XP
Ill go check the bio settings right now.
Ok, Kosmiq, i saw nothing like what you describe, HOWEVEr
I did find out that the processor is running at 166 and that i can set it to 200 however it wont start properly then (no video). The memory was set to equal the cpu, so i put it on manual and put it on 200mhz which is the higuest i could get (shouldnt it be 400?), and now when i start it says 200mhz, what are the implications of making a cpu that by default runs at 166, run at 200?
Basically your overclocking it a bit, not by much though.
Yep 2.8XP is 166 CPU frequency..
But direct memory accessing from the motherboard is 400mhz, but CPU to RAM will be 166. Less memory and the motherboard actually lets it to be 166.
Is your memory different brands Luciel?
Is one ECC and one non-ECC?
I am not sure what Asus A7N8X-E shows during POST (long time since I had my A7N8X) but compare the 200MHz (manually set) and the auto setting and see what they say. It could be so that the Asus m/b shows non-DDR speeds...
I also find it a little strange as you can only set it to 200MHz as maximum, that very little overclocking capability (not that it matters so much in this case, but still).
About your 166vs200 question;
Your CPU's speed is determined by 2 things, FSB and multiplier. The FSB is on the motherboard and the multiplier is CPU. So lets say you have 166MHz FSB and a multiplier that is 11 you take 166*11=1826 (1826MHz on the CPU) and then,
1826*3=5478, 5478/2=2739, 2739-300=2436~2400 and BAM an Athlon XP 2400+. Ehhh not that it had something to really with the question, but still that is how you calculate the "+value" on the old Athlon XP (not Barton).
Now if you raise your FSB from 166 to 200 you get a new calculation,
200x11=2200 and then the "+" calculation it will be 3000+.
What you are doing is overclocking, and when you raise from 166 to 200 it is most likely your CPU that is not able to handle the speed change without getting more voltage or better cooling or both. Also you PCI/APG speeds will get higher and your graphics card fail due to not being able to handle an APG bus higher then standard/little more than standard. There are several more factors, IDE controller crapping out due to higher frequency, SATA controller and so on. You should have the option to lock the PCI bus though. That will keep it at a constant level (so that overclocking will not affect SATA, IDE, APG, PCI).
Advise: Do NOT overclock if you are not aware of the risks and are fully aware of what you are doing.
Hope that answers your question (and brings you a little more knowledge for free :p). If not, say so and I will cut it down a bit... ;)
Both memory sticks are same brand same type same everything :/ bios still has a max of 200mhz though
Are you sure the memory thingie is not adjusted by % in the bios?
I took the time to look into a review and it says;
Basic overclocking-related options are also found in the Advanced Chipset Features page:
* CPU External Frequency can change from 100 to 300MHz stepping 1MHz;
* CPU Frequency Multiple – this parameter changes somewhat irregularly. You can set it to 13.0x, 13.5x, 14.0x, 6.5x, 7.0x/15.0x, 7.5x, 8.0x/16.0x, 8.5x/16.5x, 9.0x/17.0x, and from 9.5x to 12.5x stepping 0.5;
* Memory Frequency is set up in percent of the FSB clock rate: 50%, 60%, 66%, 75%, 80%, 83%, 100%, 120%, 125%, 133%, 150%, 166%, 200%;
* CPU Vcore changes from 1.5V to 1.75V stepping 0.025V;
* AGP Frequency can be given the following values: 50MHz, from 66 to 87MHz stepping 1MHz, 90, 93, 95, 97, 100MHz.
* DDR Reference Voltage – 2.6V, 2.7V, 2.8V. That’s rather a scanty choice :(
* AGP VDDQ Voltage – 1.5V, 1.6V, 1.7V. We can change the voltage on the AGP slot of the mainboard.
Thats from X-bit Labs.
So by reading that I also see that you are to go to the Advanced Chipset settings tab and change what you need... :D
yup it is all in the advance settings, doesnt change the fact u cant go more than 200mhz on the memory setting
Hmmm thats kinda strange because is the review is correct the maximum RAM speed would be 600MHz if the FSB would be set to that.
300x2 (300MHz FSB * 200% = 600).
Are you really sure that you are not adjusting it by %?
Or maybe it is some limitations because of the current FSB speed or a possible bug.
ill have to check the fsb and multiplier settings next time i reboot
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