Starforce Petition! [Archive] - Page 2

DABhand

06-12-2005, 10:17

Dabhand I've never heard of protections compromising the stablity of the OS or even destroying hardware components; the assumption that no protection works with every pc configuration is simply ridiculous, if starforce programmers knew what they are doing they would have imposed to put warnings on packages about compatibility issues.
Remember, I spend money buying games, so I have the right to just put the disc in and play, without the risk of damaging my hardware. Publishers who use SF are losing (mind?) customers after customers and the result is that NOBODY, neither legit nor warez users, will buy their games anymore. Sorry, man, but I don't have time to waste after games, just a little time to play; as a consequence I don't want to spend my days formatting and reinstalling every time I change game.
Just the last thing: SF support is not GLAD to help you, it is OBLIGED to help you cause you are just one of them who have the patience (time to waste?) to try all possibilities to make a game work; I just don't have it: shame on me.
But SF programmers are just bastards, like warez kiddies they claim to fight again.

They do put up warnings in amongst the EULA, which unfortunately most people wont read.

And no I dont have time, I have a business to run :D

Thing is was all these people who lost drives had new ones that were lost? I know some had that problem. But SF does use the discs heavily to read the topography of a disc, if a drive had problems it could be due to that and while its checking the disc the drive could give up the ghost.

In a way you could say SF benchmark the discs somewhat.

Again, no one company can test their protection on every possible scenario. You could have a PC with a certain piece of software which is harmless but affects SF, if the SF team knew about that piece of software then they probably would have found a fix for it during testing, but if they dont know they cant really forsee the future.

Its the same with all software, no one company can test their product 100% fully. Its practically impossible.

Joe Forster/STA

06-12-2005, 10:32

If software is buggy by its nature then why add even more, "redundant" software (i.e. the copy protection) to it, when that "redundant" software is known to be based on undocumented or, for other reasons, not completely reliable system functions or heuristics and, therefore, is also known to cause even more problems? (I think I'm counter-proving your statement with your own arguments...)

DUKE_NUKEM

06-12-2005, 13:41

Easy to place a thousand warnings in the EULA, when the user have already thrown his money away. Too easy.
Thieves. That's what they are. Just like warez kiddies.
And, of course no, they can't check every possible configuration. But their "heavy disc checking" seems to be harmful to ALL drives, either they are in good health or not.
I wish I could see a package with the warning "The heavy disc checking necessary to start this game could potentially damage your CD\DVD drive. The drivers contained in this software could be unpossible to remove and cause problems to your OS. Remember to format afte playing and possibly to buy a new drive". But I still can't see anything of this. So, who is stealing now?!?

thebluegr

06-12-2005, 14:30

And, of course no, they can't check every possible configuration. But their "heavy disc checking" seems to be harmful to ALL drives, either they are in good health or not.

Totally agree with this

revolver

06-12-2005, 14:55

yeah i agree with that when i frist but my pc i bought an sf game and it screw my new drive within a week

just as well i had my warrenty or i would have had to shell out 20 quid or more for a new one

Jhamael

06-12-2005, 18:56

here's a StarForce driver remover, if it wasn't posted already:

http://www.onlinesecurity-on.com/protect.phtml?c=55

Muji-FightR

07-12-2005, 11:59

here's a StarForce driver remover, if it wasn't posted already:

http://www.onlinesecurity-on.com/protect.phtml?c=55
screwed my whole system with that crap, was running smootherwith SF3... :mad:
Actually there was no way to avoid reinstallation of Windoze..
Nothing i can recommend...

Snagglepuss

08-12-2005, 16:48

I concure. No Starforce games will be purchased by me.

LostS0uL

13-12-2005, 12:34

Yup, i wount but them neather !:D

maylat

14-12-2005, 02:27

yes i ban too starforce , only if the games company spend less in copy protection and discount the game price and trust in the people they selling more games, here in mexico the games cost no less than 90 us so i only can afford buy 1 game in a month or two and if this game can ruin my pc :mad:
sorry for my english

dajunka

15-12-2005, 00:35

Just read this on Blues News. Anyone want to take them on?

StarForce Challenge [December 14, 2005, 11:04 pm ET] - 15 Comments
Destroy your PC and receive $1000 from StarForce (thanks Andrew) is an offer from the copy-protection maker in an effort to combat what they feel may be unfounded rumors about their software:
There have been a lot of rumors in the Internet concerning DVD/CD writers malfunction after installation and star-up of StarForce protected applications. Some have even mentioned that should such “malfunctioning” drive be placed in any other PC without StarForce protection installed it will fail to work as well.
...
After the installation and start-up of StarForce protected product the problem with (CD/DVD read-write malfunction) must exist and be reproduced in any other configuration.
If you can be the first to reproduce this situation in our office, we will be happy to award you with $1000.00 US, cover your trip to Moscow and pay 2 days’ lodging.

Alucard

15-12-2005, 00:43

Just read this on Blues News. Anyone want to take them on?

If everyone hates sf so much why would you help them? And for a measley $1k IF you reproduce the error. I can't see anyone in their right mind doing that.

DABhand

15-12-2005, 01:51

See now its swings and roundabouts, they issue a challenge, to prove the ideas wrong that people have been saying about SF.

Only $1000 not bad, since you could get a new machine for that easily. And its not your machine they want to destroy.

Plus even if you fail you still get a trip to moscow, to me this is a great deal.

Grumpy

15-12-2005, 02:19

Plus even if you fail you still get a trip to moscow, to me this is a great deal.
hehehe, I like your thinkin there Dab! So who wants to meet up with me in Moscow? We could all join up there and have a great party in Moscow at Starforce's expense! Now thats payback. :p

Morglum007

15-12-2005, 02:35

I am very tempted to send SF guys a mail to demostrate what they say r "not just rumors". I dont want their money, just to have satisfaction they r wrong and doesnt want to admit it.

Because it cant be reproduced in just a day with a completely new equipment, i will say them how to reproduce it. It is a six month-year test only in the case u hadnt a lab to test with.

Take a clean computer, install Windoze, and install the drive u would like.
Then, install a lot of SF games, from SF 3.3 to SF 3.6, and begin to test.
In the first month execute twice a day any 3.3 SF protected title, or even three times ( because in this stages prot not always verified disc).

Some drives will pass almost inmediatly, but others will need two or three passes. (Toshiba/Plextor drives didnt enjoy such games)

Go testing upper SF versions till final ones versions and finally try to burn/read with such drive.

Be sure to burn a test CD at the begining of everything. This will be a pattern CD if the selected drive is a recorder. Measure burning time, speed and then use any c0/c1 CD error tool.

Use this test every month and note results.

U can do a parallel test with a clean machine and "normal" use with other copyprots (Safedisc, SecuROM, RingProtect, Laserlock, Lockblocks....)
Do the same.

Finally, compare results from drive with a lot of SF titles "launched" with a normal one. Degeneration is much more on the SF one.

TIPs: LG drives launches SF titles so fast at the begining. Then becomes slower and finally goes unstable
TIP#2: Even Plextor drives goes mad after a time. My Plexie 2410a suffered in its fleed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I m learning russian, and enjoy such languaje, but i m so busy at home, so such trip is currently impossible to me. What a pity.

If someone can give SF guys such info, lets see what they say.

Morg @ CdSTeam
--------------------------
Ups i forgot, u can also try SF 2, available on Siege of Avalon game. This one particulary damaged a lot drive.

Joe Forster/STA

15-12-2005, 04:29

Yeah, and I offer 1000 USD to people who can prove to me in a reproducable way, without the need for an expensive laboratory, that bio-engineered vegetables, when eaten, are bad for human health...

There are so many variables that need to be taken into account when reproducing such mystic bugs: ALL hardware parts in the PC, the operating system (and service pack), ALL installed software, ALL configuration settings, ALL currently running software etc. etc. The more sophisticated the system, the harder to find the bugs. And, in the case of low-level software like the Starforce copy protection, the whole system can affect it and can be affected by it! For this exact reason, if "normal" software needs to be written carefully and still some bugs may remain in it, such low-level software must be written EXTREMELY carefully and NO BUGS may remain in it. I have pretty much faith in Russians, probably the best programmers/hackers/coders in the world, though, but only when creating free software, not when creating software for companies, under the supervision of MANAGERS (ARGH, kill'em all, let god sort'em out!)...

Also, it may be possible that those errors with Starforce existed only in the past and have been fixed already in the latest versions, under the title of "more compatibility". (Along with making the copy protection even more secure...)

Most users, affected by Starforce, are everyday people, with (almost) absolutely no idea about computing. They will definitely not be able to find such bugs; all they will see that their PC doesn't work as well anymore as before and they won't even know the reason for it. (I would say, many PC repair shops wouldn't find it out either, knowing the average intelligence level of repairmen.) Those people who definitely could find bugs are professional hackers who, actually, know how Starforce works. But I don't think these people would go public: would you like the offer to change to 1000 USD fine and 2 years of lodging but in the jail rather than a hotel? ;)

I've seen such an offer - crack the copy protection and wits lots of money - at a computing conference, about a decade ago. My schoolmate and I had a look at it and understood that it can't be cracked in a single day, as long as the conference existed. And we havne't had our hacking tools with us either... So, we told the company representatives to kindly f*ck off and left... ;)

This whole offer is just boasting around, nothing more. Bugs in such a complicated software cannot be proven or reproduced as easily as the offer expects.

doomerdgr8

15-12-2005, 20:37

StarForce is watching us...

StarForce's $1000 Break-Your-PC "Contest" (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3146416)

Boycott StarForce Group (http://www.glop.org/starforce/)

The actuall Challenge on StarForce's official page! (http://www.star-force.com/protection.phtml?c=261&id=707)

So, anyone still want to be a 1000$ richer?

I also just realized that StarForce is Russian! I have to respect them for that... but that doesn't mean I ain't angry like the rest!

Grumpy

16-12-2005, 00:03

@Doomer
Hey did you happen to read the 6 posts directly above yours?

doomerdgr8

16-12-2005, 00:28

@Doomer
Hey did you happen to read the 6 posts directly above yours?I did... did you happen to see any sort of direct links to the topic(s) being disscussed in the mentioned posts?

Grumpy

16-12-2005, 02:05

@Doomer
Errr, I only asked? ;)

doomerdgr8

16-12-2005, 03:35

@Doomer
Errr, I only asked? ;)
My bad... I'm sometimes a little... grumpy...

Grumpy

16-12-2005, 05:42

@Doomer
hehehe, its ok. ;)

Sparc_

26-12-2005, 08:39

You have my vote, no SF for me either.

XibaD

27-12-2005, 07:31

New writing here (not reading). My vote for "No to StarForce"

rkwpk

30-12-2005, 07:45

No Fu**ing starforce for me either.............Can some one send a link to this thread to the guys who are responsible for making the starforce.

I am sure these guys which are making star force are the crackers them selves and instead of cracking these games for free (Which they have been doing for years) they are now making money off the big companies like UBISOFT as they kjnow each and every thing about cracking/hacking and they know how anyone would be able to over come the protection.

Joe Forster/STA

30-12-2005, 08:00

First, rest assured, they are reading this forum. Second, as the saying goes, "thieves become the best policemen" (see Catch Me If You Can (http://imdb.com/title/tt0264464/) with Tom Hanks and Leonardo DiCaprio for an example).

coffin filler

30-12-2005, 14:41

Fraya

02-01-2006, 14:41

As a rule I dont buy SF protected games and I warn every gamer I know about the danger the SF drivers pose.

As for taking it to court it wouldnt be much of a trial:

Lawyer: You work for <insert game publisher>?
Witness: Yes.
Lawyer: SF protection was intentionally included?
Witness: Yes.
Lawyer: Did you research it first?

At this point whether the guy says yes or no the game company is admitting to criminal negligence =P

If they researched it and failed to warn the consumer = guilty.
If they didnt they failed to ensure their product was safe = guilty.

Contractual limited liability clauses dont apply to criminal cases only civil torts brought by the consumer :cool:

Joe Forster/STA

03-01-2006, 08:12

But you're viewing the situation from the wrong point of view! Suing Starforce's ass off when the copy protection breaks your PC is relatively simple, especially, if a few unlucky gamers unite and act against Starforce as a group, not only as several individuals. ("Corporate lawsuit", is that what this is called? Yes, my law English sucks, too!)

The real problem is proving that it was Starforce - and nothing else! - that broke your PC. That's why they're so eager to find people that can potentially show this to them...!

craft-star

03-01-2006, 10:04

i wont buy any starforce protected games from now on
the last was popt2t

craft-star

03-01-2006, 10:08

they are russians and as far as i know russians are one of the most skilled hackers.
am i wright?

Joe Forster/STA

03-01-2006, 10:15

Damn right, sir, but I think the Chinese hackers are getting closer and closer! :D

Egor50

03-01-2006, 20:09

I bought the 2005 Re-Release of "Lock-on" for my Sim loving son on Christmas. Originally released by Ubisoft. This "New release" is by "EVOLVE" games and is sold as "LOCK-ON GOLD" its supposed to be the same original game + the inclusion of "Flaming Cliffs" on a 2nd CD. Well we ran the install...clicked on the new icon and a "STARFORCE" window popped up stating that there was an error and could not find the CD (Naturally it was in the tray) I did have Dameon 3.44 running in the taskbar but with no Image loaded. So I disabled Daemon tools...then I rebooted just to be certain that memory was clear, clicked on the Icon..."Boom!" Same error! So I told him I'd mess with it later (I Know a few tricks...) then I told him "Look play the original Lock-on until later when I come back and fiddle with the new install...Clicked on the old install icon (Been running fine for over a year) and guess what? The original install was invaded by the Starforce error too!! So the Gold install rewrote EVERYTHING!! Now both versions wont run. And now there is a starforce option to generate a uploadable report! Complete with a E-mail adress that requests you send it in!!! So how is that for being taken over!

Ed

caki

03-01-2006, 20:59

Damn right, sir, but I think the Chinese hackers are getting closer and closer! :D

Never. Not while I have a breath and a bottle of vodka!!!!

Try to guess my descent. Winner gets a cookie.

For the value of one cookie, please refer to the following thread:

http://fileforums.com/showthread.php?t=67339

:D

Talas

23-01-2006, 15:36

lucifur2k

24-01-2006, 06:55

im now just begining to learn about programming so hopefully in about ten years i can be of help in the fight against game protection any one know of any good resources to learn about hacking cracking let me know. boycot sf

DABhand

24-01-2006, 12:10

Not really no, learn by knowing ASM inside and out, and how file headers work etc.

coffin filler

24-01-2006, 12:29

Not really no, learn by knowing ASM inside and out, and how file headers work etc.

:eek: :confused: :o :( :D A-MEN :D

Oblivion

25-01-2006, 13:04

Die Starforce die! I will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER buy Starforce games again.
+Brian Lara Inter. Cricket 2005

Meat_Pie

25-01-2006, 18:31

http://www.star-force.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=480

LMAO. I hate Starforce so much I will never buy any of their games again.

rlsuth

27-01-2006, 18:45

The funny thing about Starforce is, it has saved me literally hundreds of dollars. I used to buy games on a wim. I'd see a game box that looked interesting and bam, I'd buy it. I have NEVER downloaded warez. Every game I have is purchased and I have some 500 game discs sitting in two 300 pocket CD holders, but thanks to Starforce, I don't do that anymore. I now see a game that looks interesting and I don't buy it. I go home and look it up on the internet to see if it has Starforce in it. This has stopped me buying many games over the past year or more, and I'm grateful. A lot of the games produced today have huge graphic demands and little gameplay, or they're just crap. Thanks to Starforce, I now get a chance to read the reviews and check the protection before buying the game.

In conclusion: THANK YOU STARFORCE for saving me so much money!!!

I used to buy virtually everything UBI put out. I haven't bought a UBI game in ages!

ajay_wilson1

28-01-2006, 01:48

I will never by star force protected games again

ASIIndustries

29-01-2006, 16:22

Reggy

30-01-2006, 01:30

DOWN with Star Wars, I don't like any of these films!!!!!!

er I mean DOWN with Starforce, I also hate the thought of things running in the background

DOWN DOWN BOYCOTT BOYCOTT!!!!!

coffin filler

30-01-2006, 11:40

I dont see why we should just boycott the games that do have Starforce secretly installed on them, would it not be better to boycott the publishers that are known use the dreaded Starforce protection in their published games!

ASIIndustries.

Whilst what you say makes sence it would (imo) be hard to make work. ie Lets say a publisher protects a game with SF but has another release thats protected with another copy protection then we (the consumer) would be loosing out x2 fold. Due to not buying the SF protected game and then not buying other games released from that publisher that are not SF protected because lets face it there have been some good releases that have SF protection and those of us who take part in the boycott obviously loose out. We need to make it known that we only have a problem with SF protected games regardless of who releases them and i belive the best way to send that message it to boycott all/any SF protected game/app. If a publisher has (in the past/present) released or will release a SF protected game then only boycotting the games that are SF protected will soon give the publishers/developers the message that our gripe is SF and only SF. It would be counterproductive to boycott a publisher/developer compleatly just because they have released a game in the past with SF on it because by only boycotting that SF release will the message will be loud + clear.

Its only if enough of us compleatly 100% boycott SF protected games will it make a difference. However for this to happen there needs to be a vast % of the gaming public taking part in this for it to be felt financialy by those who decide if SF is used.This means that even when a excellent game is released that we have been awaiting is released but has SF protection we bite our lip and remember its for the bigger picture but i guess that many people crack at this point and buy the SF game. (this will send out a message that as long as a game is good and has been marketed correctly ect SF will not loose profits making the boycott of ours less productive

Thats my opinion. I Support the boycott and have since the begining (as i have stated in this thread previously) so come on guys/gals lets protect our PC's, and think about the consequences SF poses. I just hope someone manages to take SF development to court and wins (or would it be the publishers who were taken to court as they made the decision to protect the game with SF). Who would be accountable ? There are so many uncertancies and a sucessfull suit against SF could open the flood gates (this is new territory) and so is the way in which SF works. If anyone knows of anything going through the courts or already gone through concerning SF id be very intrested to have a read. Any links will be appreciated.

Thats my ramble over :eek:

midfingr

31-01-2006, 16:07

Have any of you had a look over at starforce's forum?
If you havent yet do it. They are some sneaky bastards, i bet they grow 'happy customers' in the backyard.
Here one of theire threads: http://www.star-force.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=238&st=0&gopid=2313&#entry2313
http://www.star-force.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=192

And of course i vote no to starforce.
Yeah. It's getting worse, or maybe better...? For those who haven't, take a look at this link.
http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/31/starforce_threatens_.html

Yes, me too. Starforce has to go!

dajunka

01-02-2006, 06:34

I was here when this Petition got started and we are now up to 297 post, we have them on the run boys.:D

Joe Forster/STA

01-02-2006, 07:27

Those idiots - the managers, not the developers! - at Starforce should wake up, once and for all...

In parallel with biology, and similarly to the effect of gene-manipulated food, it is very hard - and would take a lot of work: money and time! - to prove without doubt that the failure of a hardware or software component in a computer can or cannot be attributed to this or that other component in the same computer (or its close environment, e.g. other computers in the LAN), in our case: namely Starforce.

It is not a surprise that many are against gene-manipulated food, even if they don't know whether it causes cancer or other illnesses or not: 1) the manufacturers of gene-manipulated food don't know for sure either and 2) food problems can be solved in other ways, as well.

So, what's the problem with complaining about a copy protection without provable presence (on our side) or absence (on the developer's side) of bugs, when the real problem is that has gone too far ([edit] read: too low level; compare genes with low-level drivers) and the same problem could be solved in other ways that have less potentially bad consequences for the customer?

Tyler Durden

01-02-2006, 08:47

starforce?

Never!

In france,starforce is already forbidden because it writes itself to deep into your system. A very wise decision.

RELOADED, keep fighting!

We will win!

Joe Forster/STA

01-02-2006, 09:08

Can you, please, give us a link to this French announcement (in English translation, of course)? Thanks!

Tyler Durden

01-02-2006, 09:41

I don't know if it is true,I've heard this rumour but found nothing on google.I keep on looking and will tell you guys if I find something.

Chaindrive

04-02-2006, 10:56

I have just sat and read from the start of this thread, to the last post (no military connotation indended!) and thought I'd ask a simple question...

Once Starforce is on your machine, how do you get rid of it again?

Six months ago I purchased some software to use in my work, here in Ukraine. Published by "Transnavi.com" the software is electronic maps of Ukraine and various Cities (Kiev, Lvov etc) and is supplied on CD.

When I installed the software I thought nothing of the need to restart my machine (before the program was installed) and just accepted it as a "rather odd" install routine.

As I use these maps quite frequently, I thought I would make a copy and use the copy when "out in the field" (I find potential projects for property investors) and keep the original safe at home. Nero did not report any problems when I copied the disk but (as you all know) the copy would not work as it was not an original disk.

I must admit that I was a bit peeved by this as I believed that I was legitimately allowed to make a single copy for my own purposes and so hunted around on the internet to find a "will-copy-anything-no-problem" program (think it was called "CLoneCD" but can't remember as dumped it later). I then proceeded to waste (another) half a dozen CDRs in a fruitless attempt to get a single copy that worked. Then I gave up with a "Fair play!" to the copy-protection writers!

I would like to make one thing clear, I was not trying to make a copy to save money! The price of these programs here is about $8 a throw - Legally purchased (and delivered to my home!) by the recommended retailer in Kiev! I should have just bought another original copy (and have done so since) but, having fallen at the first hurdle, it became a bit of a bone of contention, that I could not do what I believe I am legally allowed to do (especially living in an ex-Soviet country where everything used to be strictly controlled).

I then forgot all about it until I happened to spot something about Starforce Copy Protection being a virus/trojan/computer killer etc......

I remembered the "odd" install routine on the maps and checked the CD case. Sure enough, I found the Starforce Professional logo.

Before I go any further, I must say that I have not experienced any problems with my computer, nor have I noticed any unusual activity/lack of activity when accessing CD/DVD - based material. For all intents and purposes, there is nothing untoward going on inside my computer. For me, Starforce has not been a problem.

However, I CANNOT condone any activity that I see as an invasion of my privacy. If a company wants to employ technology like Starforce to protect their product (and let's face it, like it or not, it does it's job!!), then that is their affair BUT I WANT TO BE TOLD. I want to be told exactly what it will do and I want to be given the option of saying "No! I do not want your software installed on my machine."

As it stands, the installation does ask you if you want to proceed but, as has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, nothing is metioned about what Starforce actually gets up to once installed.

And that brings me right back to where I started....

Once it is on your machine, how do you get rid of it? (It ain't the money, it's the principal!)

And Finally...

Publishers want to protect their "investment".

Gamers want to be able to run their purchases from virtual drives, external drives, RAM drives (maybe not!) and, providing they are not breaking any Copyright Laws, it is their legal right to do so.

Hackers will always come up with some sort of "fix" to circumvent any form of protection ("If man can make it, man can break it!" Just ask the guys who worked at Bletchley Park!)

Are there a lot of people upset about Starforce - undoubtedly! :mad:

Will this thread make a blind bit of difference to Starforce - sadly, I doubt it! :o

Will people give up because of that - I sincerely hope not!! :)

As a very dear friend once said: "I do not believe in God, nor do I believe in The Devil but, if they were to exist, surely The Devil would have no greater weapon to hasten the ultimate destruction of mankind, than Religion."

Sorry this has been a bit of a ramble and mark me down as another "won't use Starforce again" voter! :cool:

Tyler Durden

04-02-2006, 13:19

Q: Once Starforce is on your machine, how do you get rid of it again?

A: Use StarForceClean

http://cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_utils_8.shtml

midfingr

04-02-2006, 17:21

@Chaindrive. Thank you for relaying your SF story. There is some progress being made. Here's a quick blurb from 'Game Overdrive':

"Our boycott is indeed working, as we are working with some of our associated publishers to fix this problem. We will have updates on this when we can verify what is occuring behind-the-scenes."

To read the rest see link: http://game-overdrive.com/site/modules/news/article.php?storyid=735

Also. Another gaming site that is openly expressing their views about Starforce:
http://www.n-gage-help.com/
You may find this site helpful as the admin has a lot of experience with this and can help with problems you may have in regards to SF and your computer.

How many votes do I get? Well, here's another one. No Starforce!

Grumpy

04-02-2006, 19:16

@Chaindrive
Yes StarForceClean will remove Starforce from your system but keep in mind any Starforce protected programs wont run unless you install Starforce again.
So you need to make the choice? Either you want the program or you dont want starforce?

And yes, this one petition may not make that much difference but there are lots of these types of petitions on the net. Combined they may just make a difference?
And even if they dont make a difference it is still good to voice our opinions and experiences with Starforce.
and checked the CD case. Sure enough, I found the Starforce Professional logo.
I have not purchased a starforce protected game (program) for quite some time now but I have never seen that logo on any of the games I do have nor have I ever seen it on any games at the shop?
So you are indeed lucky you have seen it at all. It could be argued that you were told of Starforce being used, as there was a logo on the CD Case, but it could also be argued that not everyone knows what 'Starforce' is or means?
So just including a logo is not enough information being supplied to the user! ;)

Chaindrive

05-02-2006, 03:41

Many thanks for the tips as to how to remove Starforce from my system.

Living in Ukraine, I am a GREAT believer in "people-power"! If enough of the sotware-buying public refuse to buy any product that has this protection system, then publishers may sit up and take notice.

However, for that to happen, you will need to make sure the "software-buying public" is educated (made aware of what is going on).

For that to happen you will need to get magazine publishers on-side (because that is where the next "must-have, must-buy" game will be written about), for them to publish the information.

That leads me to two points:

1) Has there been any proper, controlled, documented investigations done into the effects of Starforce on a computer system?

By that, I mean: Has anyone, for example, taken a brand new, clean machine into a Lab and, under supervised laboratory conditions installed the OS (and whatever other software is needed for the purposes of the test only), to prove the machine functions perfectly? After which, installed any Starforce protected product and run the tests again to show what effect it has on the system.

I know this sounds like a lot of hassle but it leads me to point 2:

The only way you will ever get any magazine publisher to print an article that could potentially put them out of business (remember who also pays their bills!) is to give them hard, documented, real, forensic evidence. No magazine Editor will risk the wrath of big software publishers, because a group of users (no matter how passionate they are) tell them a bit of software is damaging their machines.

However, if you can prove it to them, then (if nothing else) they have a moral obligation to report it. I do not know the legal apsect but I am guessing they may also have some sort of legal obligation... If you can prove Starforce is damaging people's machines, then surely it could leave them open to claims for damages if they knowingly advertise products that contain this protection system.....?

That's it! That's my sixpennyworth!

I wish you the very best in your endeavour, I hope it succeeds.

I'm off to grab a copy of StarforceClean. ;)

Bye for now...

BTW: These are links to pics of Ukrainian software showing Starforce logo (sorry about the black smudge on the CD, it covers the serial number!)

http://www.blackrose.com.ua/starforce_cd.jpg
http://www.blackrose.com.ua/starforce_label.jpg

DaRipper

05-02-2006, 04:15

I think you should add Prince of Persia the Two Thrones in the list, I didn't find it there. I've been buying originals since 1997 and only originals. I've Always backed them up and never had any problems with any of them (my originals for C&C: Red Alert are still in their original case, thanks to back-up cds!!). Anyway, I bought a copy of POP3 online cause before you could lay your hands on an original here in Mauritius the game could have been outdated by more than 6 months and illegal copies outspreading in the wild!

The game arrived this week. I installed it ASAP, eager to find out what would happen in this last episode of POP, played the game once without problem, and then came back-up time! And for a sure thing, my once stable machine started to play tricks on me. Sometimes I had to reboot my machine only to GET INTO Windows, let alone use any application. And after the successful boot out of 3, it was more like a 'try and die' game I played to be able to use my PC.

POP3 was the first Starforce protected game I bought, and it will undoubtedly be the last!

Die StarForce, die!! :mad:

P.S: If it's not obvious enough, it a vote :D

P.P.S: we are an army of forks and spikes against swords and canons. But hey! That's how they won the French Revolution. So let's poke our forks into Starforce's belly :p

midfingr

05-02-2006, 11:53

jbMurdock

05-02-2006, 16:12

http://www.glop.org/starforce/boycott-starforce-mario-userbar.jpg (http://www.glop.org/starforce/)

nothing more to say...:mad:

Chaindrive

06-02-2006, 01:35

@Chaindrive

Apparently, there have been some efforts. As to their testing methods, I don't have a clue. There are two that I know of that have stated they've done lab-type testing:
Mark @ Sysinternals
http://www.sysinternals.com/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2263&KW=starforce

13HourR @ N-Guage in the form of a challenge
http://www.n-gage-help.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5513

I've just sat and read those threads (well, it's -15 outside!!) and agree with pretty much all that is being said and it's also reminded me of something else - but more of that in a mo...

It seems there are a lot of people who have had bad experiences with Starforce, from slowing down drives to causing actual physical damage and 13HourR is absolutely right to issue his challenge.

Will Starforce take him up on it? I very much doubt it!

While publishers continue to buy their product, why should they? I am absolutely certain that publishers know what they are buying and if they were really worried about Starforce, how quickly do you think they would distance themselves from it (and the potential costs of fighting thousands of claims for damages!)?

As I have said before, like it or not, Starforce does what it is intended to do and until someone can come up with irrefutable, incontrovertible, independent forensic evidence that this product actually damages (or causes to be damaged) computer hardware, then they will continue to use it - and whatever derivatives it may spawn!

What about the publishers themselves? Has anyone got any contacts who can verify if they have done their own testing? If so, what were the results? Can we see them published anywhere?

Also. Can I have your permission to submit the Starforce CD image to the Boycott Starforce site? Here is the site's url: http://www.glop.org/starforce/

Certainly!

It would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

You're welcome.

As I was reading the above threads I remembered something that happened a few months back whilst I was using the Starforce protected software that I mentioned previously.

I had been using the program for a while (not sure how long, maybe 30 - 40 minutes) when the CDR/CDRW drive it was in started to make a very lound "grinding" noise. Needless to say I hit the "Eject" button asap but it wasn't until I had resorted to the old "paper clip in the hole" routine, that I persuaded the drive to give up the fight and open!

On checking the cd, I found that it had been very badly scored on the "read" side and has a furrow around (approx) 50% of its' circumference, about 3mm in from the outer edge. Needless to say, it can no longer be read and is now a coaster! Thankfully, the drive seems to have survived the onslaught and still functions.

Now, it could be absolutely nothing to do with Starforce and it was just unfortunate that the CD got "thrown" but this had never happened before (and I have to say, has not happened since) but it makes you wonder!

One final point before I grab a coffee and brave the cold....

I will always give my support when asked, if I believe in what I am being asked to support but, in order to give that support, I need to be sure that what I am suporting is right.

What I have read (in the main) has been informative, well thought-out, constructive criticism of a product that a) is installed without permission and b) is believed to damage the equipment on which it is installed. (I tend to regard statements such "them pi**ing in their pants", "taking over the world" and comments about "assassination attempts" by the British Government as being at best irrelevant and at worst, damaging to the credibility of the professional image you are trying to present.)

The only thing lacking is evidence - cold, hard evidence.

Get that and you've got yourself a case - and boy, what a case it would be!!

Without it, all you've got is a long hard slog - "pushing treacle (molasses) uphill"!!!

How much would it cost to buy a virgin system, plus software and to get it to an independent Laboratory for testing? (13HourR - maybe you can come up with the answer to that?)

Would it not be possible to arrange some sort of "donation link", where all those who are concerned enough could donate a small amount to pay for it? (The equipment could be given to charity when the testing is finished.)

Let's face it, if you are not buying "Starforce" games now, you should have a few spare coins making holes in your pockets! Put them to good use now because, sooner or later, someone with an awful lot more money and clout is going to say: "Put up or shut up!"

wildwing

06-02-2006, 05:29

Joe Forster/STA

06-02-2006, 06:27

See my analogy with gene-manipulated food, in my earlier posts in this thread.

One test is no test. Ten tests are no test. Even a thousand tests are no test. A few million tests... now, we're talking about some kind of evidence! However, on the level of a few million tests Starforce was counter-proven. There's no point about more arguments or stupid contests from the developers. Case closed, period!

With my analogy, the manufacturing of gene-manipulated food is too cheap to stop only because a few ten people out of every million die because of eating it. Wow, talk about justification!

[Edit] Oh, and as for test systems, fuck the virgin ones. Whoops! :D I mean, systems used day by day are the ideal test systems. Such a low-level system, that Starforce is, has to be able to cope with unusual settings, drivers, components, whatever. Which is why it should be very careful about what it does. Which it isn't... :(

Chaindrive

06-02-2006, 06:41

ggr
i dont get
why to boycot games with sf?
i have 3 games what i bought and they was with sf3
that is scct/corsars 3(russian) and cmr05..
this games works fine,no sf errors or smth
...
looks like u want to boycot games with sf3 cuz U leech this CLONEs from ftp/torrrents ect..and u cant get this game to works ( i mean u cant run or smth so u cant play...)
sorry for my bad english

Hi Wildwing.

I think you've missed the point!

It is quite possible to download copies of many games that are protected by Starforce - copies that work perfectly and do not install undocumented software in the process!

Nobody wants to boycott Starforce because it stops you from playing a game but because of what it does "behind the scenes", without your permission to do so. Also because it reportedly opens the door for Trojans and other malicious code to attack your machine.

When you add that to the fact it prevents you from making a LEGAL backup copy of software you have LEGITIMATELY PURCHASED, then it makes for one nasty piece of coding.

I too have had no problems (so far as I am aware) with Starforce but, from here on in I will not have it anywhere near any of my machines - not until I know for sure what it does, or does not do.

THAT, my friend, is the whole point and to most of us that value the rights and liberties we have fought long and hard to gain, Starforce is a step too far towards restricting those rights and freedoms.

I don't know where you're from but I would guess it is somewhere East of Central Europe? If so, you (more than many of us) should know how precious the rights of freedom and self-determination are. Any step backwards from that position, no matter how seemingly insignificant, is a step too far!

'Nuff Sed!

Dieselbrad

06-02-2006, 07:29

ggr
i dont get
why to boycot games with sf?
i have 3 games what i bought and they was with sf3
that is scct/corsars 3(russian) and cmr05..
this games works fine,no sf errors or smth
...
looks like u want to boycot games with sf3 cuz U leech this CLONEs from ftp/torrrents ect..and u cant get this game to works ( i mean u cant run or smth so u cant play...)
sorry for my bad english

The Name of the site is Game COPY World! Not Pirate World! I bought my games as I'm sure most in the thread have. Don't Assume we are pirates because we have the right to make a backup up of something we spend 50 dollars on! I can copy my music to my Ipod from my CD-ROM Disc, Why should I not be able to backup my Game-Disc incase of incident!

When I install a game, I want only the GAME on my machine. When I listen to a sony Music CD, I want only the MUSIC on my machine.
This Copy Protection thing in general is absurd:

Developers Spend Money on Protections that will be cracked or are intrusive on the consumer then pass the savings on to you in the form of a 50-60 dollar price tag. :mad:

PIRATES DO NOT PAY FOR SOFTWARE! STARFORCE & THE REST ARE ALIENATING THE PEOPLE TO WHO DO BUY THE SOFTWARE.

IS THIS THE WAY TO DO GOOD BUSINESS?

Microsoft just announced that they will recognize Sony's DRM RootKit as Malware in the latest version of Microsoft AntiSpyware. These are the steps needed to show that the cost of DRM is more than the Gain. You have to speak DOLLAR SIGNS or they don't understand!

BOYCOTT STARFORCE MEANS THE COST > THE GAIN

Sorry Developers some of your products are damn good.
Some of your CEO's are NOT!

I'm pissed off now.. Going to play Some Battlefiled 2 From my ORIGINAL DISC!

DABhand

06-02-2006, 08:29

Again unless stated in the TOS or EULA, you can make a backup (1 of) if stated. If not you can not make a backup.

Doesnt matter the country your in either. The contents are copyrighted and is owned by the developer/publisher.

Also, I think the other guy was saying that about most people who download the games not everyone here. Its true though most of the SF moaners are people who used to download their images and play away now its getting difficult for them and now they cant.

What a shame, Not!

Grumpy

06-02-2006, 08:59

There have been some very valid comment mentioned here recently. Has definately been a very interesting read indeed. ;)

@Dieselbrad
Going to play Some Battlefiled 2 From my ORIGINAL DISC!
You can use a mini image for BF2, and it still works online. My BF2 mini image stays permanently mounted! And the BF2 mini image also works for Special Forces. I use my own mini image but I believe the 'bleh' one on GCW works fine for others. ;)

Dieselbrad

06-02-2006, 10:45

There have been some very valid comment mentioned here recently. Has definately been a very interesting read indeed. ;)

@Dieselbrad

You can use a mini image for BF2, and it still works online. My BF2 mini image stays permanently mounted! And the BF2 mini image also works for Special Forces. I use my own mini image but I believe the 'bleh' one on GCW works fine for others. ;)

Thanks, I also use a mini image I made. I was just pointing out that I actually owned the game. I did not know that you could use the BF2 disc for Spec forces until recently though. Neat!

DBS40

07-02-2006, 16:12

I am not going to purchase or use any games that use this protection. I sold off a new copy of SC CT today on ebay and will stick to this. Any dev or publisher that uses this protection I will not do business with. I have an expensive game pc and will not risk it.

midfingr

07-02-2006, 17:15

It's bad enough for gamers.

Now people are finding this intrusive software on other types of discs. This could be even more of a problem. Professional people that depend on their dics and cd drives to operate properly are at risk; maybe you as a gamer are too; as in doctors, civil engineers, and maybe even airline pilots - okay, that's stretching it, but you get the idea.

nerva

08-02-2006, 00:29

rlsuth

08-02-2006, 09:35

ahahahahahahaha Much as I've tried to avoid all games with Starforce on them, I bought some games from GoGamer and got a free present: Trackmania. :D

Oh well, at least I didn't pay for it, and since it's not my type of game, I'm not going to install it anyway.

Pigdog Ratsnake

09-02-2006, 13:28

here we go m8s - Rootkit in Alcohol and Deamon tools
http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2006/02/using-rootkits-to-defeat-digital.html
Does any body want to start boycotting Alcohol or DT? No?
Oh.. sorry, this not the right place for it...

Very funny. Except they are not rootkits because:

1. The installation of the hidden driver files and registry alterations is not a secret. The files are for the operation of the software, not a hidden function unknown to the user. The registry alterations do nothing but hide the files from involuntarily installed malware like Starforce which A120 and DTools protect against.
2. They are easily uninstalled via the control panel. No traces are left behind.
3. The drivers are not spyware, they cannot secretly phone home or update, nor do they interfere with the operation of your PC.

DaRipper

10-02-2006, 04:34

Don't Assume we are pirates because we have the right to make a backup up of something we spend 50 dollars on! I can copy my music to my Ipod from my CD-ROM Disc, Why should I not be able to backup my Game-Disc incase of incident!

Good point! I'd rather keep the originals in their cases and use copies. When the copy dies, I break the disc into pieces and make another one... At least the originals will still be here, and the cost would be very much lower!!

This Copy Protection thing in general is absurd:

Developers Spend Money on Protections that will be cracked or are intrusive on the consumer then pass the savings on to you in the form of a 50-60 dollar price tag. :mad:

PIRATES DO NOT PAY FOR SOFTWARE! STARFORCE & THE REST ARE ALIENATING THE PEOPLE TO WHO DO BUY THE SOFTWARE.

IS THIS THE WAY TO DO GOOD BUSINESS?

Annoying Copy Protection + High Price Tag = less consumers.

They should review their equations!! :D Maybe the developers are trying to frighten pirates, but they are frightening potential buyers for sure! How many gamers who were faithful to some publisher are now willing to actually STOP buying games from them if they continue using StarForce as copy protection? And when faithful followers stop supporting their favorite publishers, how will they sell to new customers? A great deal of new gamers get info from elders, so if elders tell you a game's not worth the pain, you are less inclined to buy it! :rolleyes:

PS:I managed to finish POP3 in 2 days and to clear the side effects of SF, I had to reformat my baby. Lucky I had 2 HDD, so I didn't lose data. So much time lost because of one game, I'm definitely staying away from SF from now on. :mad:

Pandaman

17-02-2006, 18:01

To those who accuse people against StarForce as being whining pirates:

1) StarForce can be easily circumvented - just look it up on Google, it's like three easy steps.

2) StarForce has been known to damage CD/DVD drives on certain versions of WinXP and/or firmwares.

3) StarForce leaves a gaping security hole in your system by granting system level privileges to everything running on your computer.

4) Games with StarForce do not tell you that it is being installed, nor does it remove it the game is uninstalled.

So companies that use StarForce are endangering your CD/DVD drive and security for a worthless anti-piracy program that can only be removed by a tool offered by its creators - meaning if you didn't know you had StarForce installed, you wouldn't know to remove it.

If you still think StarForce is a good idea, you're either a troll or a blithering idiot.

Oblivion

18-02-2006, 02:47

STupid StarForce!:mad: :mad: :mad: Wait till the makes get a taste of this eh!:cool:

Drifternz

18-02-2006, 03:03

I to am joining the boycot of Starforce protected games.
After installing Worms Mayhem, I had endless trouble with writing cds. It wasn't even as if I was trying to write cd images or copy cds. I was having trouble writing data cds! :mad:
After removing the starforce drivers, my writer once again could write cds with no trouble, so there is no doubt that the starforce drivers were the problem.
Also I had trouble installing some other heavly protected games like Sacred.
(which by the way is a bought original).
Again once the starforce drivers was removed, I could install the other games with no trouble.
When I fork out NZ$100 for a game, I expect it not to wreck havioc on my system or interfere with or damage my hardware.
Is my expectations to high?:confused:

Azeroth

18-02-2006, 10:32

here we go m8s - Rootkit in Alcohol and Deamon tools
http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2006/02/using-rootkits-to-defeat-digital.html
Does any body want to start boycotting Alcohol or DT? No?
Oh.. sorry, this not the right place for it...

Ah, how very convenient this quote is for SF developers... but wait, YOU ARE one of the developers, right? At least you're one of the official SF Forum Moderators, so spare us your venom :mad:
Besides, there is a world of a difference between the intrusive way SF behaves on a user's PC without his consent and the way DT4 or Alcohol behave. AND so far, I haven't seen anyone complaining about DT or Alcohol affecting their normal OS operation like SF does.

Besides, my workstation has both Ultra SCSI Hard Drives and CD Drives (Real ones) and when I bought X3-Reunion, no indication on the box coud be found stating that the game would be unplayable with those. It took me 3 weeks of pingpong between Egosoft and SF support to realize that there was nothing to do about it. Most incredibly, 90% of both companies' efforts were directed towards finding out wether or not I had purchased the game :mad:

In addition to that, I bought an external USB 2.0 IDE DVD/RW to be able to play the game. Guess what... the game wouldn't run from that drive either.:(
I returned the game to the store two days ago

Needless to say, I'm done with SF protected games (at least while SF modus operandi remains like it currently is)

Oblivion

18-02-2006, 14:22

When I fork out NZ$100 for a game, I expect it not to wreck havioc on my system or interfere with or damage my hardware.
Is my expectations to high?:confused:
NO!!!!! Youre expectations arre by no means too high. People buy games to play them, not have the protection of the $90AU game infecting and even stuffing up their system! LAWSUIT!LAWSUIT!LAWSUIT!LAWSUIT!LAWSUIT!:D :D :p
WHen it comes to cracking SF, Star Force Clean Removes the drivers, but the moment you start up the game again, it reinstalls them again! Imbloodypossible! Hehehe.

Linux-Gamer

05-03-2006, 11:47

SF games dont works on my Cedega , too :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

The fu**** PC reboot Grrrrrr

Starforce to Hell

MfG

Iku

06-03-2006, 05:38

:cool:

coffin filler

06-03-2006, 14:32

:cool:

?? :confused: ??

Muji-FightR

07-03-2006, 11:30

?? :confused: ??
I suppose he wanted to add himself to the long list w/out saying anything ?
He could have also said "Hello, me too" while meaning exactly the same..

robo989

07-03-2006, 11:36

hello, me too...:o :p

Rayder

08-03-2006, 00:58

Alrighty, I've read every single post in this thread. (WHEW!) Add me to the boycott list, I'm convinced that this protection should be completely outlawed.

I have 3 games in front of me right now that are SF protected that I still have the boxes to: Dead To Rights (DTR), Midway Arcade Treasures Deluxe Edition (MATDE) and Peter Jackson's King Kong Signature Edition (PJKK). I know I should have the Trackmania Sunrise box right here handy too, but I can't seem to find it at the moment. I know I have a few more, but these are the ones I still have the boxes to investigate.

Anyway, looking at the packaging, only one of them mentions anything about having any copy protection on it at all....PJKK. It says (and I quote),

Notice: This game contains technology intended to prevent copying that may conflict with some CD-RW, DVD-RW and virtual drives.

This was in a (approximately) 1/4" by 1" little box on the back of the packaging. Carefully notice that it DID NOT say the protection was Starforce. Hey! At least in warned you though....nevermind that you you had to hunt it down on the box to see it. Also notice that it said it may conflict, not destroy, your drives. :rolleyes:

The other 2 games say NOTHING about the fact that it can damage (or conflict with) your PC in the least. :mad:

(minor digression)
A couple of months ago, my Plextor CD-R drive (2410a if my memory serves) started getting VERY slow to recognize disks and would fail to write basic data CD's consistently (sometimes it would, sometimes it wouldn't). I just figured that the drive's time had come and replaced it. Now I wonder. I can't test it to see if it works fine in a non-SF infested system since I tossed the drive and replaced it with a LiteOn DVD-R drive. :rolleyes:

Anyway, to my point. I think ALL Starforce infested games should have the warning that PJKK did, but TELL you that it is, in fact, SF that is the protection, not only that the protection used MAY cause issues. That way we'll know not to waste money on those games. While I've not had any absolute proof that SF has really caused any damage to my system, why blatantly invite problems?

I have a couple ideas for the people here to make our purchase decisions easier. One may be sort of shady and/or illegal, but that one idea would certainly help get the message across to more people outside of the internet.

First (and this is the easy one) make a sticky post in the PC Games section that lists ALL known SF infested games. Keep it updated as new games with the SF infestation come out. While this thread has that info in spades, many may never see it, but a sticky post is hard to miss. This way, when a game comes out and you aren't sure of it's protection scheme, you have one simple post to check to see if it's one with the SF infestation. ;)

Next, (and this is the shady one that would have to be done voluntarily because it COULD get you in trouble) is to get a roll of super sticky labels (you know, the kind of sticky that license plate stickers have, can't remove those suckers very easily at all without destroying whatever they're stuck to ;) ) that have something like this printed on them, "Warning: This game uses Starforce protection which MAY damage your PC or limit its ability to function properly", (or something like that) and stick these labels on SF infested games in stores so EVERYONE that picks up the box will see the warning (instead of having to search the whole box that may not even have such a warning) and hopefully will spread the word (or at least cause them to investigate) about the dangers of StarForce.....not to mention instantly alerting those of us that ARE aware to not even touch that game.

Sound like good ideas to you?

Well, I'm going to uninstall MATDE (only SF game currently installed) and run the SF cleaner program now. Later all.

My goodness! This ended up to be quite a long post. :eek: Sorry 'bout that. Just goes to show what a sensitive issue this is to us honest puchasers of games I guess.

Grumpy

08-03-2006, 03:59

@Rayder
I believe the only reason King Kong has the warning on it is because now they realize there is potentially a problem and they are just covering their asses!
With the warning, they now add to the box, nobody can argue in court that they were not told of a protection being used. But as you say they still dont mention it is actually starforce!
With so many complaints and petitions, circulating on the internet now, I believe it is only a matter of time before something drastic happens. Whether or not this will actually stop publishers from using Starforce remains to be seen?
Notice: This game contains technology intended to prevent copying that may conflict with some CD-RW, DVD-RW and virtual drives.
Now that warning gives people a strong reason to return their starforce games for a refund! All they have to do is say it conflicts with their drives and wont work! After all we should not be expected to buy new hardware just to run a game! This argument could actually go 2 ways though as some people buy new graphics cards just to play a newer game!
The shops would not be able to disagree as it states it on the box! The shops would have no choice but to refund your money!
If the shops have to keep refunding money then maybe they might stop stocking starforce games? So that is another way, if everyone purchases a game then returns it 2 days later for a refund!
As for you sticker idea, I like it!! I can just see myself doing that! :p
I havent purchased a starforce game for a very long time, and I feel the only game that I may really miss is Race Driver 3 (Toca). But even that wont persuade me to go through the hassles of installing a starforce protected game!!
I wont even download game demo's anymore until I find out for sure which protection is being used on it!!
Anyway keep boycotting and stay PC safe. ;)

Stinger87

10-03-2006, 23:47

Hey guys, I was going to buy a game that had recieved some good reviews, but I decided to rent it first... good thing to, as it has StarForce 3 and it's not on your list.

It's Ricky Ponting International Cricket 2005, known in other countries as Brian Lara Cricket 2005, so yeah, another one to watch out for.

Damn StarForce! I'm right behind you guys.

midfingr

13-03-2006, 20:38

Yikes! I guess you've seen the latest news regarding Starforce and Stardock..?

Stardock, maker of GalCiv2 was critizied by Starforce for not using their cp. The thread has since been locked, but this has caused quite a stirr.

Linkies:
http://forums.galciv2.com/index.aspx?forumid=161&aid=106741&c=1
http://www.star-force.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=670&st=0
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=1209

This one even made gamespot's PC news: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6145864.html

Grumpy

13-03-2006, 21:36

@midfingr
The interview, on Gamespot, with Galactic Civilations II lead designer and Stardock head Brad Wardell is very interesting. He brings up a few things that have been mentioned many times before but which have been argued about time and time again! The main point being:
Most people who pirate a software product would never have purchased it.
Now I have heard a lot of you talk about this!

Another interesting point is:
EBGames has released their top-selling PC games from last week. Galactic Civilizations II was number one. So if piracy is such a menace, it's not apparently affecting us to the degree that some say it should.
Ive always maintained that if a game is good enough people will purchase it!

I think they are on the right path with the updates idea. But the problem is, will developers/publishers start releasing unfinished games (with files purposely missing) so that you need to patch it before you play?
This in my opinion would not be a bad thing! It would sort of be like what we had to do with Halflife 2. That being we had to download files before we could play. Difference with Halflife 2 being we had to still use the CD to play until they succumbed and released the patch to allow the use of NoCD. ;)

Grumpy

14-03-2006, 09:45

@HBAndrew
will be downloaded and played
May I suggest you have a read of the forum rules (http://fileforums.com/showthread.php?t=54193) before you bother to post such dribble again!!

Rayder

16-03-2006, 12:35

UGH!!! I just got burned by buying a game that had the StarForce virus/rootkit (whatever) in it. :mad: L.A. Rush. Luckily, I checked GCW before opening it....

It's a good thing I didn't open it. If I would have opened it, I would have been stuck with it. Back to the store it goes. And when I take it back, I'll be sure to let them know that it was because of the potentially damaging protection that it contains as my reason for bringing it back. :p

Loss of sales +1 thanks to StarForce....and NOT piracy! ;)

The StarForce-infested list of games NEEDS TO BE A STICKY POST so we can reference it quickly, without having to hunt down this petition thread. Could that please be added?

Grumpy

16-03-2006, 17:26

The StarForce-infested list of games NEEDS TO BE A STICKY POST.... Could that please be added?
I may just do that soon? ;)

OG61065

17-03-2006, 14:51

I Promise the bearer not to purchase any "Software" containing StarForce Copywrite Protection and any of its nasty, underhanded, vile drivers. I personally think there may be a case against them using the "Human Rights" Convention, that states we are all entitled to privacy and choice and as far as I can see SF are breaching this by installing this software even though we have agreed to the EULA it denies the individual the choice of playing the game without the drivers being installed and therefore invades ones privacy.
Needs a lawyer to look at it!!
Leon of London.
OG61065

Rayder

21-03-2006, 13:39

CDFreaks has an interesting article about StarForce and it's destroying disk drives.

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/13212

bevar

22-03-2006, 07:33

Yes... I boycot all StarForce games. I worked with Starforce twice during and after installations and it's just too much for me to accept.

Buying this game is not an issue... $20.00 is nothing for me. If I like a game I buy it; but as long as this game uses Starforce the only way I will play it is if I have a No-CD crack. That goes for most games I play even though I buy them. Don't like the BS.

If these companies are so worried about protecting thier "Itellectual Rights" then they should copy what Webroot's SPyware or Newsleecher does to protect thier software. Period.

cool_recep

22-03-2006, 13:39

waht about the apps like starfucker or the tools like this...Do they make some stuff or they are in vain for starforce v3?

Killpuppy

26-03-2006, 03:54

Starforce f**ks me the buyer

therefore I shall f**k Starforce by not buying any more of their s**t

* Not everyone here is a pirate but I feel treated as one when I encounter a Starforce title

Rayder

01-04-2006, 10:41

The lawsuits are starting!!!!!

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=1559

WOOT!

toshea68

02-04-2006, 02:53

StarForce should be eliminated from the whole scene, they are nothing but intrusive and damaging!! NEVER will I purchase StarForce games, big up to all those whole crack starforce games!!!

ikkyu

06-04-2006, 06:37

Yes, for now on, i will boycott all Starforced games !

I just bought ToCA 3 few days ago and im starting to suffer from miscellaneous issues with my OS. I can't believe that Starforce creators deliberately spread a CRITICALLY DANGEROUS software world wide without receiving any sentence from no tribunal... I mean... WTF ?! Besides Starforce society is very well aware on those matters, everybody is nowadays. Damn it !

I really hope a patch will be available soon, released by Starforce itself, that will allow us to play our games without this insane protection installed. Then, obviously, Starforce should seal his doors forever and shoot his managers in the legs to make them remember what they have done.

dajunka

13-04-2006, 23:14

Well it looks like we are winning lads, with the anonouncement that UBI soft are trashing Star**** another publisher is added to the list of 'those who have seen the light'. Starforce does not make more money for pubishers, quite the oposite thanks to all those who stood up and shouted ' I AM BOYCOTTING Star**** so you can shove your new game up your ****'. :D

saulob

14-04-2006, 22:52

yep.. Starforce is gone from Ubisoft....

so.. I hope that Ubisoft release new patchs from the starforce game, without it... like.. KING KONG!! :D

Qgal5kap

19-05-2006, 09:50

Today I decided it was time to do a little spring cleaning on my harddrive,
as it was stuffed with way too much anime :-p

I stuffed a verbatim in my plextor PX-712A and started dragging media into Nero. When I clicked the burn button, I noticed the only speed it could record at was 2.3 X ??? like .. hellloo ? 2.3 x?? what is that ?

At this point I knew exactly what many of you reading this know by now ..

"Staaaaaaaarfooooorce!!!!! 3!!!!!"

I got this nifty piece of "MALWARE" from installing Toca Race Driver 3.

To resolve this issue I simply flashed my drive with a fresh ROM from plextor.
now it burns at 12x again :-D

I was not actually buying into the whole starforce fucking up my hardware idea, but now, as it has happened to me and my mate, both using plextor...

There no longer exists doubt in my mind that starforce does all the bad things people say it does. It's time we, the end users draw the line. We must and cannot accept to be treated this way.

what can I say ... let's sue the remaining publishers for using starforce,
especially codemasters, since they made such a good race game,
and packed it with starforce. On a second note it might be unfair to sue them over money, since using starforce cuts back on sales anyway. I suggest we sue, and demand they do some proper market research, before money hungry bosses and shareholders decide what the proper protection software to be used is. I guess even codemasters should hire me or another throughbred nerd as their "ethical supervisor" not the monopoly man!!!
lol
...

Qgal5kap out ...

princcce

19-05-2006, 09:56

Here u can find many answers to your problem with starforce protected games.:)

Not everyone here is a pirate but I feel treated as one when I encounter a Starforce title

TameBest

31-05-2006, 04:36

When playing a game, I'm buying the game ! I'm a Starcraft and Warcraft addict and I bought all originals...
My way of playing is to make an ISO image and play it via Daemon tools. The reason is CDs and DVDs suffer much too much !
Last week I bought the "Move2Play" game (an Eyetoy like for PC) and detected a Starforce 3 protection on it :-(
My kids are 9 and 3 years old... they aren't carefull enough which means they are screwing games sometimes.
2 weeks ago, my 3 years old son came to me with my original "Toy Story 2" DVD... Totally SCREWED by himself: "it doesn't work dad !" (of course, he just broke it in 2 parts !)
With Starforce 3 (and above), it seems there is NO possibility for a backup :-(
This was the ONE AND ONLY Starforce protected game I ever bought !
This will be my way of boycotting Starforce in the future...
Just because I cannot possibly be present each tims my son will play on the computer...

pendragon361

09-06-2006, 13:48

With all due respect to the author of this post..the only people haveing issues with starforce are the ones with illegal copys....my advice is to buy the frigging game if you like it and quit bitching !

Grumpy

09-06-2006, 18:15

@pendragon361
..the only people haveing issues with starforce are the ones with illegal copys....
Not true at all!! You obviously have no idea! Please keep your opinions to yourself! No unfounnded accusations! :rolleyes:

XdaywalkerX

10-06-2006, 01:07

I stuffed a verbatim in my plextor PX-712A and started dragging media into Nero. When I clicked the burn button, I noticed the only speed it could record at was 2.3 X ??? like .. hellloo ? 2.3 x?? what is that ?

At this point I knew exactly what many of you reading this know by now ..

"Staaaaaaaarfooooorce!!!!! 3!!!!!"

same problem here... and YES - it's because starforce (after driver cleaning all works fine again)

Gil

29-06-2006, 04:01

Yes, me too boycotting Starforce games as well.:)

BarryB

29-06-2006, 06:02

I wonder if those companies that have dropped starforce will release patches to remove it from those titles that were protected by it?

dr_psikick

30-06-2006, 20:45

boycote, no starforce in my system.
In fact all the copy protection schemes IMO are dubious and abusive, because when you buy one game, you are not buying only the game itself, you buy the box, the media (CD / DVD) and so on... and you have every right to copy/backup any part of the product - it's yours you have paid - for your personal use.
For example, when I was in the university, I often copy my own books (that I have bought) just to study, because I like to write and cut pages... so I still have the originals nice and cleans...
Other point is that a copy protection scheme that makes you to have the CD on drive to play the game is demaging the drive - CD/DVD drives are like commom lights they have a certain number of hours of life...
Finishing a key code, IMO is the only legit scheme of copy protection - I can have 1000 copies but I only have one code...

Grumpy

30-06-2006, 22:01

@dr_psikick
because when you buy one game, you are not buying only the game itself
This is a common misunderstanding as you 'never' really own the game. When you purchase the disc etc you actually only purchase the licence to play that game on 1 pc at a time. You dont technically own the actual game itself.
I know this sounds stupid but thats how it is. ;)

Joe Forster/STA

03-07-2006, 03:18

Yes, you have the right to use the game (with tons of limitations, see the EULA for the details) but you never get the copy- and intellectual rights of the game.

See chips in cars. As far as I've been told, their firmware is also copy protected (at least, by the law) and you may get into legal trouble if you provedly changed it without the manufacturer's agreement (besides losing the guarantee of the car, of course). You may use it as you received it but you may NOT reverse engineer it, change it, copy it (partially or fully), resell it etc. etc.

Mason

05-07-2006, 21:32

Laws trump the EULA. AFAIK, USA law has recognized things like the right to make a copy for archival purposes, the right to resell and the right to reverse engineer regardless of what the EULA says.

Grumpy

05-07-2006, 23:48

@Mason
Laws trump the EULA
Yes in some countries this is very true but (and I quote Joe's wording on this)you still.......
have the right to use the game ......but you never get the copy- and intellectual rights of the game.

Joe Forster/STA

06-07-2006, 03:19

Yeah, I'm sure are a few countries where authorities don't give a fuck about intellectual property and copyrights. However, software companies don't sell much software there either as they actually COULDN'T.

I would assume that China is today the greatest software pirate on the planet. Not only because of the sheer number of citizens but also the weird government that is 1) anti-capitalist but 2) - not surprisingly! - open for new technology, including hardware and software, because that makes them money. (Please, don't get me wrong, I'm not against China in any way... They are great people, with their own Red Flag Linux for the government's use, YEAH! :))

E.g. in Hungary, laws concerning copy- and intellectual rights of software are going to change to more strict as this is mandatory for the EU membership. I don't wish to comment on that because time - however long it takes, though - will show the truth anyway...

VenOmaX666

26-07-2006, 07:59

i never buy starforce games i hate this protection
i want to know if they say in the game box that the game is starforce protected so i will never be fooled...

:mad: starforce may die ...
were all with you guys
gl

Faraz_Hayat

26-07-2006, 15:04

kosmiq

26-07-2006, 16:13

Estimating lossed money based on pirated software is just dumb. Let me make an example.

Here's John Doe, he's a 17 year old kid that buys all games he likes. Yes thats fine and good. However, he also downloads a lot of games and applications becaues he can not afford them all. Or afford them AT all. Lets say he downloaded 3d studio max from the net, because there is no way he could afford that. However he wants to learn 3d rendering and therefore will do it somehow.

Lets say that 3d studio max would NOT be piratable (aka uncrackable). Would John ever use it then? Most likely not as he can not afford it. How can it be a loss for a software company if the person never would have the possiblity to get it legally anyway?

I am not defending piracy in any way. It is wrong. But the way they make up numbers and how much they "loose" is just wrong. Potentioal loss for something that never would happen makes it sound a lot more serious. When in reality the actual loss is much smaller even if there of course is a lot of pirates that could afford the software or would use it in a company.

Same goes for movies and games. John is still in the game here. He buys all games he likes and supports the companies that he thinks deserves it. Ok, thats good in a way. But would John be able to decide wich games to buy? Would he be forced to buy and after that see if the game is worth having or if it is just waste of money. Some product made by a company with a cool cover and only to get some easy cash. Thats where the biggest problem is IMO. Demos are getting rare, atleast they are not as many as a few years ago. But if John would not have downloaded a few of those games, he never might have bought them either. Or he could've bought a few games that he just hates but can't refund for a new one that he might like.

Movies, John goes to the cinema every now and then to see some great movies. However he also downloads a few. Perhaps he downloads a lot of movies he never would've gone to the cinema for. Maybe because they are bad or perhaps because they are unknown in his country. If there is a movie he really likes he might get it on DVD when released. If he downloaded a movie he never would've payed for in the cinema there is no loss for there either. What could've happen is that he never would've seen the movie and not put any money into it anyway. Or he might like it and decide its worth buying wich he otherwise may have thought it was not.

To go a little further, we can look back in time. 20-30 years ago, even 40 years. People copied cassettes all the time, traded cassettes with music taped from the radio. Even made copies of LP's and sold through ads in papers or similar. Noone was as active hunting down them back then even if it in reality was almost as easy as getting music now.

With that said I'll leave the discussion for now (gotta go to sleep and don't feel like typing anymore :p).

Dieselbrad

26-07-2006, 16:27

Well put kosmiq. John Doe downloads them off the net, but he never would have paid for "X" game anyhow.

The industry needs to change.. make things as affordable as they could be and sell more! Instead of Preventing Piracy which creates a culture against your product.. embrace open-source and the like...

Oh well.. the people who make these decissions don't read the forums anyhow.

gazza1970

27-07-2006, 04:11

you hit the nail on the head there with selling games cheaper

if the original cost is about the price of a cd/dvd then say cost of distribution marketing .blah blah blah

then why does it cost someone like say joe blogg down the road about 50pence to make a dvd

why does it cost £30 to sell it and if thats a million copies then surely its gonna be big profits and just a case of being greedy and not looking after the costumers

cost of a game in my eyes should be around about 5-10 pounds

then it would sell more and everyone would be happy :D

Joe Forster/STA

27-07-2006, 04:19

Again, please, note that the vast majority (about 95% or more!) of the profit goes to the publisher and the vendor; only the rest goes to the developers! And that's not enough because (at least, part of) the copyright belongs to the publisher, too. So, the publisher 1) expropriates the intellectual material of the developer AND 2) rips them off by sucking away most of the actual profit. And the reason: the developers cannot make a living while they're developing the software so they need to borrow money from the publisher in the meantime, have themselves sponsored. But they pay back that money multiple times!

The same goes with most other things, even including agricultural products: traders get the money, while the farmer/manufacturers do the harder part of the job. This is how capitalism works: unfairly.

IMMANUEL

27-07-2006, 15:25

but you are right. :eek:

Again, please, note that the vast majority (about 95% or more!) of the profit goes to the publisher and the vendor; only the rest goes to the developers! And that's not enough because (at least, part of) the copyright belongs to the publisher, too. So, the publisher 1) expropriates the intellectual material of the developer AND 2) rips them off by sucking away most of the actual profit. And the reason: the developers cannot make a living while they're developing the software so they need to borrow money from the publisher in the meantime, have themselves sponsored. But they pay back that money multiple times!

The same goes with most other things, even including agricultural products: traders get the money, while the farmer/manufacturers do the harder part of the job. This is how capitalism works: unfairly.

Eindhar

29-07-2006, 03:28

i hate SF protection and i will boicott all games in the list.
simply i hate that i can't make a back-up of my Second Sight and i won't buy two copies of it.
and i really dislike softwares that install something that i don't want on my system.
i will boycott StarForce games

CaveACane

29-07-2006, 07:31

There is absolutely no way I will ever buy a Starforce protected game. I don't care how good it is !!!!

I once installed Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Chaos Theory and it slowed my CD/DVD drive down to nothing !!!

Once bitten twice shy... if its Starforce protected its not worth the risk of installing. Anyone who has had this experience will tell you the same.

There is always another game !!!

-AxA-

24-08-2006, 05:17

After installing SH3 (a game with starforce) i've problems:
- Computer has slow down
- Once in a while a blue screen
- errors saying that i don't have enough intern mermory

So now i'm boycottin Starforce

shinyrory

24-08-2006, 11:25

Starforce was installed on my comp and it messed up my dvd burner. Never buying a starforce protected game again.

rz22g

12-01-2007, 15:35

Yes, I am boycotting Starforce games

My system started running strange and I had not even heard of starforce. I found info on it after searching for my system symptoms on the internet. Come to find out Starforce had installed by either a game or demo without my knowledge. It is also annoying now to spend time downloading a demo, going through the install process and then being prompted about starforce. At the very very least, starforce installation should be listed as one of the requirements in the system requirements of the game.

I have gone a step further and cancelled my fileshack account. I feel that they should in some way tag what demos contain starforce and will not continue to use their service until they do. It is bad enough that a game will install Starforce but a DEMO!!!!! Thats just stupid.

orion731

13-01-2007, 02:12

I realize that this post is getting huge but I thought I'd add my two cents. Before reading this post I knew very little of starforce and the evilness behind it. I was just aware that it was a form of copy protection but I do realize now it is much more than that. I bought the game Breed and installed it without even realizing it was on the dreaded starforce protected list. What are we supposed to memorize this list when choosing a pc game to buy? After installing I have noticed very weird quirks about my system first being that the starforce somehow messed with my file associations when I tried to doubleclick the DVD drive my Audio cd was inserted in. It said there was no file association attached to it. I specifically remember that when I used to doubleclick the drive with an audio CD inserted it opened in Winamp, my music player of choice. So I quickly downloaded the Starforce clean program from this post and *hopefully* removed this starforce driver from my system. My question that I hope someone can answer is "How do you know for sure if starforce has truley been completely uninstalled from your system." Reformatting is NOT an option. Thanks.

BarryB

13-01-2007, 13:15

The problem, I think, with most EULA agreements is they don't actually state you are agreeing to the copy protection used or that the program uses copy protection. You are only agreeing to the terms and conditions for the program code to run the game.

Since most commercial copy protections are licenced from 3rd party developers, when installing a copy protected game there is no EULA between you and the maker of the copy protection, so if it is installed without any consent and the program does not run because the copy protection does not like deamon tools or whatever the copy protection maker arbitarily dictates you can't have on your system, how can you agree to the EULA for program code you can't run because the undisclosed copy protection won't let the program code run?

Anyone legally minded have an opinion?

Zwo

26-02-2007, 08:09

no matter what kind of tec goods i buy there is always a technology and or law that want me 2 regulate the uze of. i just want 2 buy music for example and get rootkits and non-redbook bullshit! i wont pay with buggy or incompatible money. so i have 2 fight 4 a reasonabl balance between the interests of the right owners somewhere and mine.
and if there is any that want make me believe i am ganster like just because of a backup or private copy - get lost!!

Alien Firefox

04-03-2007, 06:25

starforce should be banned

though barryb mate

im looking at my splinter cell 3 chaos theory dvd box

which has starforce v3 elite

and nowhere on it does it mention starforce.

so your comment is right mate i think that after all the other shit they write on the box they could atleast add a line that states the protection the game uses.

or a icon on the front stating it

powered by starforce
powered by safedisc.
powered by securom

it wouldnt take up any more ink or anything and would be more convenient.

wolfsrain

04-03-2007, 09:15

I agree. It should be an icon there. Also I see lately an increase of programs that are just installed on your hard drive.No questions asked. DirectX, Net Framework, gamespy arcade, Xfire. Just to name a few. Maybe I don't want all that. Maybe I do have the latest DirectX or the latest Net Framework. Maybe I am an antisocial person who doesn't like programs like Xfire or Gamespy Arcade.

What happened with asking what I want to install? A readme which would state that the game actually needs at least version x of the program z should suffice.
Supreme Commander installed a lot of c.ap without asking.What the hell is wrong with those people.Maybe I don't want to play the game online.

Maybe I just want to play the SP campaign and go back to some MMORPG i play, game that I bought being fully aware that I will play it only online.Maybe I don't like the Gamespy Arcade or any other of those services.

I'd like back the custom install, just because it gives me at least the illusion of choice.I always used the custom install, but lately that option just disappeared and that makes me angry. After all I pay for my games, I should have the right to decide what I want on my PC or not:(