Thief ver 1.33 NO CD

[Niemand]

Thief The Dark Project at ver 1.33.

I play it on a WIN XP SP1 computer. The game had issues with XP with error "Direct 3D Device does not accurately report texture memory usage" until I downloaded a new exe called thieffixed.exe from http://www.thief-thecircle.com/download.asp?fid=726.

My question is there a no cd for this exe version?

[Killer_Cop]

checked here (http://www.*************.com) or here (http://www.gamecopyworld.com) ?????

[Niemand]

checked here (http://www.*************.com) or here (http://www.gamecopyworld.com) ?????

Yes I have checked. The no cd's there are for the 1.33 exe. If I use the thieffixed.exe it works just fine. If I rename the thieffixed.exe file to thief.exe it works as well. Both do with cd in. The no cd's I tried did nothing to the thieffixed.exe renamed to thief.exe.

So my swag would be that the thieffixed.exe would need to be cracked.

[RincewindTheWiz]

I don't think there's a nocd for this version. The easiest way to play without the cd is to simply make a hard disk image with a program like Alcohol120% (http://www.alcohol-software.com) and mount that. Yes it takes up another 700 Megabyte of hard disk space, but it WILL work.

[Niemand]

I downloaded and used Game Jackel. http://www.gamejackal.com/home.asp I'm going to try on others. :)

[Waterdust]

I'm going to say wth.. 10+ years and no fix.. c'mon.. what someone too lazy
or something? this shouldn't take more than 5min nowadays.

(non gold edition)

[TippeX]

unsafedisc should do it, tried it ?
also, scan it with protection id and report what protection it has please..
more info helps

[Waterdust]

I know neither of these programs you suggest.. also it appears that the admins
think this is some sort of illegal activity an had some weird pop up rule thingy
spawn upon my login.

I own my game tyvm, if they need a scan of the disk i'd be more than happy to show
them if that be the case. (I didn't download my f'in game like some idiots)

Anyways.. I suppose we'll have to continue this in pm or something if
that's ok with you? (I will look into those other programs though meantime).

[DABhand]

That pop up comes up for everyone who logs in, to remind people of rules.

Its not suggesting you are doing anything illegal.

Nobody was suggesting you downloaded the game, or scan your case/disc to show you own it, TippeX means to scan the executable to start the game with Protection ID which you can find in this section as a sticky.

Nobody has done a crack for years doesnt mean people are lazy, just nobody bothered to do it back then, and its not easy to do so, so you saying you dont know certain programs means you shouldnt really comment on if people are lazy to crack it.

IMHO.

[Waterdust]

I spoke as I felt, no different than you just did. IMHO.

Oh an that popup has only shown up once since then.

[Waterdust]

Scanning -> Thief.exe
File Type : Exe, Size : 2239488 (0222C00h) Byte(s)
[Heuristics] -> Flag : 00000000000000000000000000000000
[!] File appears to have no protection or is using an unknown protection
- Scan Took : 0.859 Second(s)

[Joe Forster/STA]

Oh an that popup has only shown up once since then.

It's shown again only after a few hours, not upon every login or page access. (But turn off cookies and it will show up constantly.)

[Waterdust]

I see.. well thanks.

So now that the data was posted above.. where do we go from there?
I should add that I'm not interested in running this off an iso, 2 & 3 are able to run
without an iso; so an even older version should be just as capable if not more so.

(Unless there is no other choice but to run it off an iso.. but I highly doubt thats
truely necessary >.> I mean c'mon..)

[Cowsheep]

Exact error msg when you start it without mounted image or disc in drive is`?

[TippeX]

hmm exe with no protection, sounds like its just a disk check, can you put the exe on some hosting site? rapidshare or something and i'll download it and see what i can do..

/me is feeling nice because its nearly christmas time

[Waterdust]

http://www.mediafire.com/?jm21zxjwz4m

Hope it's still there later on, I'm not sure how long they keep these things.

========

Cowsheep - Thief.exe - No Disk X
There is no disk in the drive. Please insert a disk into the drive D:

Cancel Try Again Continue

Looks like that ^ / X = close

[Cowsheep]

Try my fixed exe:1340

There are more ways to crack this.
Whats better Tippex: Keep call alive and hardcode result so conditional jump does what it should like i did it or nop the call to the protection routine?

[TippeX]

personally i'd have hit the protection routine to return true for the check, that way if its called indirectly later, its better

actally, it looks like there may be an ini setting 'test_copy_protect'
so check the ini file, see if thats there, its probabaly somethign like 'test_copy_protect = 1' or similar, so make it 0 (if it says TRUE then make it FALSE)
and see what happens :)

[Cowsheep]

I didnt found any ini setting.
Not all disc checks are proctection, some also check discs for movies if you didnr make a full install.
Why the hell i dont see the AL register in Olly under registers?
After the test_copy_protect is a test al,al, cond jump and then the same again.
Making the 2 jumps uncodtinoal causes a crash.

[TippeX]

you need to look deeper

.0060F870: 73 63 72 69-70 74 5F 6D-6F 64 75 6C-65 5F 70 61 script_module_pa
.0060F880: 74 68 00 00-6D 6F 76 69-65 5F 70 61-74 68 00 00 th movie_path
.0060F890: 6C 61 6E 67-75 61 67 65-00 00 00 00-65 6E 67 6C language engl
.0060F8A0: 69 73 68 00-6E 6F 5F 63-64 5F 25 73-5F 25 73 00 ish no_cd_%s_%s
.0060F8B0: 4E 4F 20 43-44 00 00 00-74 69 74 6C-65 00 00 00 NO CD title
.0060F8C0: 6D 73 67 00-20 2E 00 00-63 64 5F 70-61 74 68 00 msg . cd_path
.0060F8D0: 74 68 69 65-66 5C 73 6E-64 2E 63 72-66 00 00 00 thief\snd.crf
.0060F8E0: 72 62 00 00-72 62 00 00-63 64 5F 70-61 74 68 00 rb rb cd_path
.0060F8F0: 44 3A 5C 00-00 00 00 00-63 64 5F 70-61 74 68 00 D:\ cd_path
.0060F900: 44 3A 5C 00-00 00 00 00-74 65 73 74-5F 63 6F 70 D:\ test_cop
.0060F910: 79 5F 70 72-6F 74 65 63-74 00 00 00-6F 6E 6C 79 y_protect only
.0060F920: 5F 63 68 65-63 6B 5F 70-61 74 68 00-00 00 00 00 _check_path


now x-reference the test_copy_protect_line :)

to do this, there's probably a thief.cfg file, or maybe thief.ini, i think its cfg though, inside that there should be a line as
'cd_path'
which probably needs to be changed to .\
and some files copied from the cd/dvd to the installation folder (most likely the movies folder)

the AL register in ollydbg is in the EAX register
EAX = 32 bit
AX = 16 bit
AH = 8 bit high
AL = 8 bit low

think you need to read up on your asm a little more..

and changing jumps is usually a bad idea, target the procedure, NOT the conditionals, because the procedures influence the conditional


.0050E8F0: 8B442404 mov eax,[esp][4]
.0050E8F4: 50 push eax
.0050E8F5: FF1528615B00 call GetDriveTypeA
.0050E8FB: 33C9 xor ecx,ecx
.0050E8FD: 83F805 cmp eax,5
.0050E900: 0F94C1 setz cl
.0050E903: 8BC1 mov eax,ecx
.0050E905: C3 retn ; -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-


is the function to determine if the drive is a cd drive, if it is it returns TRUE (1), otherwise it returns FALSE (0)

if you look above that you'll see it looking for snd.crf, and accessing the 'cd_path' variable..

x-ref that function and you'll find..

.0050E910: 8B442404 mov eax,[esp][4]
.0050E914: 53 push ebx
.0050E915: 85C0 test eax,eax
.0050E917: B341 mov bl,041 ;'A'
.0050E919: 7444 jz .00050E95F --↓1
.0050E91B: 8B4C240C mov ecx,[esp][00C]
.0050E91F: 85C9 test ecx,ecx
.0050E921: 7410 jz .00050E933 --↓2
.0050E923: 0FBE00 movsx eax,b,[eax]
.0050E926: 50 push eax
.0050E927: E894070900 call .00059F0C0 --↓3
.0050E92C: 8BD8 mov ebx,eax
.0050E92E: 83C404 add esp,4
.0050E931: FEC3 inc bl
.0050E933: 80FB5A cmp bl,05A ;'Z'
.0050E936: 7F27 jg .00050E95F --↓1
.0050E938: 6830F86000 push 00060F830 ;'D:\' --↓4
.0050E93D: 881D30F86000 mov [00060F830],bl ;'D:\' --↓4
.0050E943: E8A8FFFFFF call .00050E8F0 --↑5
.0050E948: 83C404 add esp,4
.0050E94B: 85C0 test eax,eax
.0050E94D: 7509 jnz .00050E958 --↓6
.0050E94F: FEC3 inc bl
.0050E951: 80FB5A cmp bl,05A ;'Z'
.0050E954: 7EE2 jle .00050E938 --↑7
.0050E956: 5B pop ebx
.0050E957: C3 retn ; -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-
.0050E958: B830F86000 mov eax,00060F830 ;'D:\' --↓4
.0050E95D: 5B pop ebx
.0050E95E: C3 retn ; -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-
.0050E95F: 33C0 xor eax,eax
.0050E961: 5B pop ebx
.0050E962: C3 retn ; -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-


which is the routine that validates if the drive letter is a cd/dvd drive..

x-ref that and it'll take you to..


.0050E970: 81EC04010000 sub esp,000000104


x-ref that and it takes you to..


.0050EB90: C705AC8E670000000000 mov d,[000678EAC],0
.0050EB9A: E8D1FDFFFF call .00050E970 --↑7
.0050EB9F: 85C0 test eax,eax
.0050EBA1: 7517 jnz .00050EBBA --↓8
.0050EBA3: 6A01 push 1
.0050EBA5: E806FCFFFF call .00050E7B0 --↑9
.0050EBAA: 83C404 add esp,4
.0050EBAD: 85C0 test eax,eax
.0050EBAF: 742A jz .00050EBDB --↓A
.0050EBB1: E8BAFDFFFF call .00050E970 --↑7
.0050EBB6: 85C0 test eax,eax
.0050EBB8: 74E9 jz .00050EBA3 --↑B
.0050EBBA: A1AC8E6700 mov eax,[000678EAC]
.0050EBBF: 85C0 test eax,eax
.0050EBC1: 740E jz .00050EBD1 --↓C
.0050EBC3: 50 push eax
.0050EBC4: E897FEFFFF call .00050EA60 --↑D
.0050EBC9: A1AC8E6700 mov eax,[000678EAC]
.0050EBCE: 83C404 add esp,4
.0050EBD1: 33C9 xor ecx,ecx
.0050EBD3: 85C0 test eax,eax
.0050EBD5: 0F95C1 setnz cl
.0050EBD8: 8BC1 mov eax,ecx
.0050EBDA: C3 retn ; -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-
.0050EBDB: 33C0 xor eax,eax
.0050EBDD: C3 retn ; -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-


x-ref that and it takes you to..


.0050EC90: 6A00 push 0
.0050EC92: 6A00 push 0
.0050EC94: 6808F96000 push 00060F908 ;'test_copy_protect' --↓2
.0050EC99: E842B70300 call .00054A3E0 --↓3
.0050EC9E: 83C40C add esp,00C
.0050ECA1: 84C0 test al,al
.0050ECA3: 7507 jnz .00050ECAC --↓4
.0050ECA5: B801000000 mov eax,1
.0050ECAA: EB21 jmps .00050ECCD --↓5
.0050ECAC: 6A00 push 0
.0050ECAE: 6A00 push 0
.0050ECB0: 681CF96000 push 00060F91C ;'only_check_path' --↓6
.0050ECB5: E826B70300 call .00054A3E0 --↓3
.0050ECBA: 83C40C add esp,00C
.0050ECBD: 84C0 test al,al
.0050ECBF: 7507 jnz .00050ECC8 --↓7
.0050ECC1: E8CAFEFFFF call .00050EB90 --↑8
.0050ECC6: EB05 jmps .00050ECCD --↓5
.0050ECC8: E813FFFFFF call .00050EBE0 --↑9
.0050ECCD: 85C0 test eax,eax
.0050ECCF: 7405 jz .00050ECD6 --↓A
.0050ECD1: E96AFBFFFF jmp .00050E840 --↑B
.0050ECD6: 33C0 xor eax,eax
.0050ECD8: C3 retn ; -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-


now perhaps you see how i saw the configuration names.. which are most likely in the cfg file (or ini)...

and how if the value is 0 (i think), it'll set eax to TRUE (1) and return...
skipping the checks..

so there may be no patching required, just a simple editing of a cfg file, copying files from the cd/dvd drive to the install folder.. job done...

or do you have better ideas cowsheep?, also, without all the files the exe crashes, so debugging it without the complete files, its a bit tricky

[Cowsheep]

I modified the install.cfg already when that crack for original 1.33 (not the new D3d texture error fixed exe that came out later and was requested by thread starter)(http://m0001.gamecopyworld.com/games/pc_thief.shtml#Thief: The Dark Project v1.33 No-CD Patch)

so it looks that way:
cd_path .\
install_path C:\Thief\
language english
resname_base C:\Thief\+C:\Thief\intrface
load_path C:\Thief\
script_module_path C:\Thief\
movie_path C:\Thief\MOVIES


Game asks for CD anyway. Coping files to hdd and edit install.cfg is not enough, there is check in exe.

I have come across about the routines you posted above, but the problem with this target are that the game reads many files by default from disc depending on the setup type you have choosen. (This files must be copied to hdd if you play without disc.)
So many cd checks are not important for the disc check that serves as protection.

Snd.crf got 117MB and seems to be some kind of archive.

CD check nag appears before the getdrivetypea with cmp eax,5 gets hit. So that one is not part of the protection, the 2 other drive checks compare the result with 1 (hdd).

You use IDA right?

Does my fix where i patched 0050EC90 /$ B8 01000000 MOV EAX,1
0050EC95 \. C3 RETN
work for the one who asked for it?

From here the function above is called:00415678 |. 6A 00 PUSH 0
0041567A |. 6A 00 PUSH 0
0041567C |. 68 7C575E00 PUSH thieffix.005E577C ; ASCII "skip_starting_checks"
00415681 |. E8 5A4D1300 CALL thieffix.0054A3E0
00415686 |. 83C4 0C ADD ESP,0C
00415689 |. 84C0 TEST AL,AL
0041568B |. 75 2F JNZ SHORT thieffix.004156BC
0041568D |. 6A 23 PUSH 23
0041568F |. 6A 00 PUSH 0
00415691 |. E8 9A37FFFF CALL thieffix.00408E30
00415696 |. 83C4 08 ADD ESP,8
00415699 |. 85C0 TEST EAX,EAX
0041569B |. 75 0B JNZ SHORT thieffix.004156A8
0041569D |. 50 PUSH EAX
0041569E |. 6A 01 PUSH 1
004156A0 |. E8 3B8E1100 CALL thieffix.0052E4E0
004156A5 |. 83C4 08 ADD ESP,8
004156A8 |> E8 1348FFFF CALL thieffix.00409EC0
004156AD |. 85C0 TEST EAX,EAX
004156AF |. 75 0B JNZ SHORT thieffix.004156BC
004156B1 |. 50 PUSH EAX
004156B2 |. 6A 01 PUSH 1
004156B4 |. E8 278E1100 CALL thieffix.0052E4E0
004156B9 |. 83C4 08 ADD ESP,8
004156BC |> E8 CF950F00 CALL thieffix.0050EC90
004156C1 |. 85C0 TEST EAX,EAX
004156C3 |. 75 0B JNZ SHORT thieffix.004156D0
004156C5 |. 50 PUSH EAX
004156C6 |. 6A 01 PUSH 1
004156C8 |. E8 138E1100 CALL thieffix.0052E4E0
004156CD |. 83C4 08 ADD ESP,8
004156D0 |> E8 EB020000 CALL thieffix.004159C0
004156D5 |. 8D5424 40 LEA EDX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+40]
004156D9 |. C74424 40 030>MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+40],3
004156E1 |. 52 PUSH EDX
004156E2 |. 6A 01 PUSH 1
004156E4 |. 68 94575E00 PUSH thieffix.005E5794 ; ASCII "display"
004156E9 |. E8 B24C1300 CALL thieffix.0054A3A0
004156EE |. 83C4 0C ADD ESP,0C
004156F1 |. BF 0E000000 MOV EDI,0E


Yepp, without game its hard.

[Waterdust]

If thats a no cd patch you posted in that rar I'll give it a shot, aslo I don't recall needing
to run a patch on my thief 1- 1.33 install to update it so yeah I believe its a direct 1.33.
oh and also I don't recall needing to fix any Direct3D texture errors thus far.

I'll give it a shot now but on a side note.. *looks at code discussion* ok so maybe I was
wrong when I thought it would be a simple matter of making a no cd patch lol.. jk you
guys are prolly l33t at that stuff an do so in your sleep =p but ya wow @ code talk stuff.

<-- has almost no programming skillz but can read/understand where the discussion is
going somewhat.

*zips up to test the file now*

PS: I searched my install for an ini file which isn't there but several cfg files DO exist and
a movie folder, let me know if you need a screenshot if the install dir.

----------

Edit: However I did need to change the affinity to cpu 0 to keep the game running
originally it seems your patch/fix from the rar comes with the affinity preset which is
very nice ^.^, so far it appears to run fine, I'll have to give it a few levels for my own
personal stability test but so far so good though I don't expect this to fail ultimately
considering the skillz at hand involved =p.

Oh ya if I wasn't clear the game loads up without the cd =p.
I'll post again tomorrow sometime when I get home.

Thanks in advance, if you feel personally confident you should post the patch up
on the net to prevent this nightmare from ever re-raising itself from the dead =p

PSS: I won't go posting the fix on the net as thats not my job so you know,
especially without having a readme that credits those involved properly =)

=========

New Edit: So I loaded a game save that went well, took a few hits died all good.
Then I tried to start a new game with training and the game crashed. Tried again
without the training same thing crash. Hmm.. where to go from here..

Maybe I should mention I run this from F:\Games\Thief\Thief.exe
(Yeah I renamed the patch exe to that but even without renaming it
the error/crash persists.)

Faulting application thief.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thief.exe,
version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x001203aa.

0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 74 68 69 ure thi
0018: 65 66 2e 65 78 65 20 31 ef.exe 1
0020: 2e 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 69 .9.0.0 i
0028: 6e 20 74 68 69 65 66 2e n thief.
0030: 65 78 65 20 31 2e 39 2e exe 1.9.
0038: 30 2e 30 20 61 74 20 6f 0.0 at o
0040: 66 66 73 65 74 20 30 30 ffset 00
0048: 31 32 30 33 61 61 0d 0a 1203aa..

&

Faulting application thieffixed.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thieffixed.exe,
version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x001203aa.

0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 74 68 69 ure thi
0018: 65 66 66 69 78 65 64 2e effixed.
0020: 65 78 65 20 31 2e 39 2e exe 1.9.
0028: 30 2e 30 20 69 6e 20 74 0.0 in t
0030: 68 69 65 66 66 69 78 65 hieffixe
0038: 64 2e 65 78 65 20 31 2e d.exe 1.
0040: 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 61 74 9.0.0 at
0048: 20 6f 66 66 73 65 74 20 offset
0050: 30 30 31 32 30 33 61 61 001203aa
0058: 0d 0a ..

If you need more error reports let me know.

[Cowsheep]

Install the game - Complete HD installation of Thief.
Apply the Thief: The Dark Project v1.33 Update (http://www.fileforums.com/#Thief: The Dark Project Game Updates).
(The patch updates multiple files, cracked exe is not enough, you must install whole patch 1.33 before using any crack.)
Copy the complete contents of the \THIEF\MOVIES directory from the CD to the Thief movie directory (e.g. C:\GAMES\THIEF\MOVIES).
Important: Copy intrface.crf from the Thief base directory
(e.g. C:\GAMES\THIEF) to the \THIEF\INTRFACE directory
(e.g. C:\GAMES\THIEF\INTRFACE) which has been generated by the update patch.

Open install.cfg and place that there (paths must be adjusted ofcourse)

cd_path .\
install_path C:\Thief\
language english
resname_base C:\Thief\+C:\Thief\intrface
load_path C:\Thief\
script_module_path C:\Thief\
movie_path C:\Thief\MOVIES

For the CPU issues:http://www.saleck.net/Games/Thief1-Gold/Thief-HowToGetWorking.php#ProA

My crack based on the "thief new exe" there.

[TippeX]

maybe add in
test_copy_protect 0
into the cfg like i mentioned :)
or maybe you just need the
test_copy_protect
line.. either way, experiment, cos im not so sure the exe needs to be patched, there's definately code there to bypass the disk check.

for multi core cpu's just use the oneprocessorlaunch tool i wrote.. does the job fine, works for other games too.

[Cowsheep]

There is also a dark.cfg and a cam.cfg besides the install.cfg.
I pasted test_copy_protect (or test_copy_protect 1 or test_copy_protect 0), but no success.

Any plans for a gui for making a gui or frontend for your oneprocessorlaunch tool?
It works with console parameters fine for me, anyway.

[TippeX]

yeh i plan many things for oneprocessorlaunch, and new protection id release is due soon too, once i have some free time (got a lot of personal real life stuff to deal with at the moment) i'll be updating both, gui for oneprocessorlaunch (and context menus) and beginning protection id 7 with a dual x32 and x64 asm compile build system :)

as/when those appear is anyones guess though..

[Waterdust]

How does one patch a game that comes fully updated direct from the cd??
Furthermore it IS a full install or so that's what it said when I installed it.


Edit: I see all the movie files aren't in the folder to begin with, moving those now,

dark.cfg & cam.cfg & install.cfg - already in the main dir, however no INTRFACE dir
exists as no patch can be applied since its already updated from the first install.


When I tried to run the 1.33 patch anyways this happened.

"Error: Wrong version."
"Cannot patch this version of the game."
"This patch expects version 1.14 to be the installed version."
"The version currently installed is 1.33"

If for some reason this is unbelievable I can prove it comes as 1.33 from the disk.

-----------

Edit 2: When making the dir that was missing myself and copying over the crf file
into it manually from the cd and running your fix the following error happened.

Thief.exe - No Disk
There is no disk in the drive. Please insert a disk into the drive D:
Cancel - Try Again - Continue

I hit continue 3x and then..

Faulting application thief.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thief.exe,
version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x001203aa.

0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 74 68 69 ure thi
0018: 65 66 2e 65 78 65 20 31 ef.exe 1
0020: 2e 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 69 .9.0.0 i
0028: 6e 20 74 68 69 65 66 2e n thief.
0030: 65 78 65 20 31 2e 39 2e exe 1.9.
0038: 30 2e 30 20 61 74 20 6f 0.0 at o
0040: 66 66 73 65 74 20 30 30 ffset 00
0048: 31 32 30 33 61 61 0d 0a 1203aa..


When ran with the normal fix you provided un-renamed the above happens again with this error data.

Faulting application thieffixed.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thieffixed.exe,
version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x001203aa.

0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 74 68 69 ure thi
0018: 65 66 66 69 78 65 64 2e effixed.
0020: 65 78 65 20 31 2e 39 2e exe 1.9.
0028: 30 2e 30 20 69 6e 20 74 0.0 in t
0030: 68 69 65 66 66 69 78 65 hieffixe
0038: 64 2e 65 78 65 20 31 2e d.exe 1.
0040: 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 61 74 9.0.0 at
0048: 20 6f 66 66 73 65 74 20 offset
0050: 30 30 31 32 30 33 61 61 001203aa
0058: 0d 0a ..

[DABhand]

Your thief was a remastered version, which was sold for cheaper way after its initial release, like a budget release of it, so it came with latest patch.

[Waterdust]

Prolly.. just waiting on them atm to get back to me.

[Waterdust]

Happy Holidays to the people helping.

[Cowsheep]

I found an old tutorial for cracking Thief 1.14, no idea about the relevancy for 1.33.

1346
Err windasm, really old stuff.

[Waterdust]

Welcome back from the holidays =p

[Waterdust]

Bump.

[TippeX]

NO BUMPING - go read the rules

[Waterdust]

Anyone ever tell you caps lock = yelling? an while we're on that thought.. maybe I forgot
that rule? seriously.

On topic though this discussion feels abandoned, I don't like that.

[DABhand]

You just talked to a Moderator, his CAPS were not meant as a shout, but as a stand out feature so you would notice.

[Cowsheep]

You crash seem to happen when some text is loaded. As cant install patch 1.33 because its already integrated, i uploaded the new intrface dir, in case your version does not have it.1356

[Waterdust]

Lets not go off topic any further, I'm simply ending it by saying I didn't appreciate it an feel the caps was uncalled for.

Meantime.. I'm just now looking into this zip file. brb.

------

So.. this allows the fix you made to work if put into that dir or?

(Shortly there-after..)

The below error applies when your interface files were put into that dir and your fix is used.

====================

Faulting application thieffixed.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thieffixed.exe, version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x001203aa.

0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 74 68 69 ure thi
0018: 65 66 66 69 78 65 64 2e effixed.
0020: 65 78 65 20 31 2e 39 2e exe 1.9.
0028: 30 2e 30 20 69 6e 20 74 0.0 in t
0030: 68 69 65 66 66 69 78 65 hieffixe
0038: 64 2e 65 78 65 20 31 2e d.exe 1.
0040: 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 61 74 9.0.0 at
0048: 20 6f 66 66 73 65 74 20 offset
0050: 30 30 31 32 30 33 61 61 001203aa
0058: 0d 0a ..

[Cowsheep]

Make with QuickSFV an .sfv of your game folder and upload it, so i can see what files you have.

For me, i never crashes.
This time i nopped the call, maybe that exe works for you.1358

[[Psych]]

Lets not go off topic any further, I'm simply ending it by saying I didn't appreciate it an feel the caps was uncalled for.

Yes... because anyone would feel so upset after someone typed in capitals... jesus :-/ Ever stop to think he might be trying to re-iterate a point to you?!

As for a post.. err.. somewhere up there ^, I doubt 'NOPPing a CALL' is going to do anything constructive.

[Waterdust]

Below is the error after running that exe you supplied. Also I'm not aware of what sfv
is so you might wanna fill me in there please, thanks.

-----------

Faulting application thieffixed.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thieffixed.exe, version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x001203aa.

0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 74 68 69 ure thi
0018: 65 66 66 69 78 65 64 2e effixed.
0020: 65 78 65 20 31 2e 39 2e exe 1.9.
0028: 30 2e 30 20 69 6e 20 74 0.0 in t
0030: 68 69 65 66 66 69 78 65 hieffixe
0038: 64 2e 65 78 65 20 31 2e d.exe 1.
0040: 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 61 74 9.0.0 at
0048: 20 6f 66 66 73 65 74 20 offset
0050: 30 30 31 32 30 33 61 61 001203aa
0058: 0d 0a ..

[Cowsheep]

I never get crashes, what are you doing for making it crash? Is your game in english language? How much MB your whole game folder got?
Download QuickSFV here: http://www.quicksfv.org/download.html
Then make an SFV of your gamedir.

Try this new one, works for me ,too, but will crash for you, too i guess.1361

[[Psych]]

Also I'm not aware of what sfv
is so you might wanna fill me in there please, thanks.

He's trying to establish whether or not your game files match (same version) etc..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_file_verification

An .sfv file is basically a list of files to their checksums, which can be ran against someone elses files to see if they match. They are used a lot for checking if downloaded files are incomplete/corrupt, along with PARs for example (although PARs have repair capability).

[Waterdust]

Yeah its in english. Not doing anything but double click + open the game.

I don't have anything else running in each attempt either, no browsers etc.
Win XP Pro SP3 constantly updated regularly if that matters.

That program btw seems to only open databases.. not make them.

Oh and yes another crash.

---------------------------

Faulting application thieffixed.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thieffixed.exe, version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x001203aa.

0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 74 68 69 ure thi
0018: 65 66 66 69 78 65 64 2e effixed.
0020: 65 78 65 20 31 2e 39 2e exe 1.9.
0028: 30 2e 30 20 69 6e 20 74 0.0 in t
0030: 68 69 65 66 66 69 78 65 hieffixe
0038: 64 2e 65 78 65 20 31 2e d.exe 1.
0040: 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 61 74 9.0.0 at
0048: 20 6f 66 66 73 65 74 20 offset
0050: 30 30 31 32 30 33 61 61 001203aa
0058: 0d 0a ..

[Cowsheep]

I can create SFV, too.

[DABhand]

Always at the same address, perhaps someone can check what hangs at that address?

But then again he was a cheeky git to me and others, why are we helping him again? lol :P

[Trooper1234]

what part thief is this thread written?

EDIT Oh sorry, i see now in start of post.

what programm is that on website? says "totally useful software". what makes it when i download?

[TippeX]

@dab.. yeh, totally hear you.. i'd help but frankly i really couldn't be arsed at all given the attitude, abuse reports (yep he posted an abuse report) and overall whining.. i'm done with this thread

[Waterdust]

It just shows me some open button.. no menu's or a create button or other options..
infact when attempting to uninstall this program one of its dll's refuses to go normally
and then won't delete even after several reboots along with its dir.

(So I had to forcefully kill off that dll).
I'll see what I can do though.

-------------

Yeah.. just that open feature.. quick par won't let me make the file you want but at
least gave me options.. this sfv program is just like devoid of any.. even if the open
button was the create button it won't let me select the dir or even all the files in the
dir.. also if i just select the main exe nothing happens.

Just gonna have to find something else to do this I think..

[[Psych]]

Lol.

[Waterdust]

Found another program to do the job.. one that actually
has some sort of menu system - yay.

http://www.2shared.com/file/10756837/d684f527/Thief.html

On another note though.. All the help that's been given to fixing this game
is highly appreciated, it's my serious hopes that people won't get discouraged
and leave as this fix isn't just for me it's for future people who play the game too.

Or at least that's how I view this even if others don't wish to.

[Cowsheep]

Always at the same address, perhaps someone can check what hangs at that address?

But then again he was a cheeky git to me and others, why are we helping him again? lol :P

I saw that and said that i loads the fonts there. So i guess that some files are missing or have the wrong names in his remastered version.

So i want him to send me an SFV to see whats differnt
1362
Copy this to your gamedir and tell me what files are missing or different.

Besides that you must have the following folders in gamedir:
intrface (8,72MB) (intrface, NOT interface)
movies (79,5MB)
pal (5,39 KB)
saves

[Waterdust]

Did you get my sfv file btw?

[Waterdust]

I've gone ahead an just SS'd the entire directory, let it be noted I have made my
own backups directory for this project within here but I excluded it from my sfv
that I uploaded earlier.

http://www.2shared.com/file/10762208/a843d324/Directory.html

I've kept the directory modified according to your files given. If I need to revert
any files that's what the backup dir I made is for.

Also.. you and I have very different versions according to your sfv.
Did you not catch that mine is English USA version 1.33? I wonder..

Also I think it might be worth mentioning since I looked at
the disc again "Eidos Platinum Collection" hope that helps.

[DABhand]

I told you you had a later version. Where protection and files will be different.

[Waterdust]

Did I say it wasn't? o.0 my bad if I did.. =/

[Cowsheep]

At the beginning a link to new direct 3d error fixed exe was postet, i also read that he got a later version with patch 1.33 integrated. So my old version + that exe + patch 1.33 should be the same like his one.

I saw your sfv now, is there not single sfv tool out that can handle subfolders?

Backup files, unrar to gamedir.
1363
Many files are different, can you send me your readme.wri?

[Waterdust]

Yeah I'll upload it for you now..

http://www.2shared.com/file/10778929/b3faa705/Readme.html

If necessary I suppose I could just give you an iso of my cd? I'm not aware of any
websites that'll allow that kinda upload.. well I thought I did.. but I don't.. do you?
or maybe lol.. via a messenger? pm me about it.

--------

Meantime.. copied your rar in, I'll just clean install to undo them if need be.
And another error of course with the new files if you need it.


Faulting application thieffixed.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thieffixed.exe, version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x001203aa.

0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 74 68 69 ure thi
0018: 65 66 66 69 78 65 64 2e effixed.
0020: 65 78 65 20 31 2e 39 2e exe 1.9.
0028: 30 2e 30 20 69 6e 20 74 0.0 in t
0030: 68 69 65 66 66 69 78 65 hieffixe
0038: 64 2e 65 78 65 20 31 2e d.exe 1.
0040: 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 61 74 9.0.0 at
0048: 20 6f 66 66 73 65 74 20 offset
0050: 30 30 31 32 30 33 61 61 001203aa
0058: 0d 0a ..

[Cowsheep]

You have also 1.33, but yours is 2 years more recent.
Send me the original thief.exe (not the direct 3d error fixed one i dealt with all the time), uploading whole game is against the rules.

[TippeX]

If necessary I suppose I could just give you an iso of my cd?
--------


would be a very bad idea.. consider this your first and only warning (this is entirely independant of the other 'issue'), infact i am not banning you on the spot simply because you are new to the board and are trying to make friends, normally i would do it, but just to show no hard feelings i wont... this time

[Waterdust]

I never said I'd upload it here, that'd violate rules clearly, hence why I was wondering
about doing so elsewhere which does not violate the rules hence as it is not hosted here.

Perhaps someone will go off an say more about how even the very mention of it is a no-no.

Lets move past that.. my bad.. thanks for the no ban for the iso idea.

[TippeX]

@WaterDust - have you got a hex editor? if so, i can give you some file offsets in the exe to change and see if it works.. it saves having to upload / download etc for simple patches...

the first one is..


Offset Original Change to
0010E0A3: 75 90
0010E0A4: 07 90


NOTE: (aw fuck, caps.. oh well).. you may need to copy most of the content of the cd/dvd to the installation folder (movies if i remember is definately one)...

oh a good free(ish) hex editor -> www.bpsoft.com (just in case you haven't got one.. also if its the first time using one please read its manual carefully about hex editing and making sure you are in overwrite mode)..

give it a shot, see what happens, who knows, it might work...

[Waterdust]

Nice to see your helping again Tippy, glad to see we could work things out.

http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab316/Waterdust2000/Clap.gif

----------

But I'm afraid I'm no good with hex editing.. I get lost there sadly.

For cow - http://www.2shared.com/file/10780946/32fba22c/Thief.html there ya go.

[Cowsheep]

My thief came 8 years ago on the cover cd of a gaming magazine.
Your exe is new to me.

What i did:
Patches, item 0
Address=004156BC
Size= 5.
State=Active
Old=CALL Thief.0050EC90
New=MOV EAX,1
(That call is also patched in tutorial for v1.14 by r!sc that i read afterwards.)


004156B9 |. 83C4 08 ADD ESP,8
004156BC B8 01000000 MOV EAX,1
004156C1 |. 85C0 TEST EAX,EAX
004156C3 |. 75 0B JNZ SHORT Thief.004156D0
004156C5 |. 50 PUSH EAX
004156C6 |. 6A 01 PUSH 1
004156C8 |. E8 138E1100 CALL Thief.0052E4E0
004156CD |. 83C4 08 ADD ESP,8
004156D0 |> E8 EB020000 CALL Thief.004159C0
004156D5 |. 8D5424 40 LEA EDX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+40]
004156D9 |. C74424 40 03000000 MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+40],3
CALL Thief.0050EC90 calls disc check, failed disc check means eax = 0, jnz not taken,
CALL Thief.0052E4E0 leads to function that terminates process.

1364

Patched this exe, too.
Please post your gamepath so i can fix install.cfg for you.
Your crash happens always when the fonts are loaded.


@Tippex: Disc check is still present.
Patches, item 1
Address=0050ECA3
Size= 2.
State=Active
Old=JNZ SHORT Thief.0050ECAC
New=NOP



0050EC90 $ 6A 00 PUSH 0
0050EC92 . 6A 00 PUSH 0
0050EC94 . 68 08F96000 PUSH Thief.0060F908 ; ASCII "test_copy_protect"
0050EC99 . E8 42B70300 CALL Thief.0054A3E0
0050EC9E . 83C4 0C ADD ESP,0C
0050ECA1 . 84C0 TEST AL,AL
0050ECA3 90 NOP
0050ECA4 90 NOP
0050ECA5 . B8 01000000 MOV EAX,1
0050ECAA . EB 21 JMP SHORT Thief.0050ECCD
0050ECAC > 6A 00 PUSH 0
0050ECAE . 6A 00 PUSH 0
0050ECB0 . 68 1CF96000 PUSH Thief.0060F91C ; ASCII "only_check_path"
0050ECB5 . E8 26B70300 CALL Thief.0054A3E0
0050ECBA . 83C4 0C ADD ESP,0C
0050ECBD . 84C0 TEST AL,AL
0050ECBF . 75 07 JNZ SHORT Thief.0050ECC8
0050ECC1 . E8 CAFEFFFF CALL Thief.0050EB90
0050ECC6 . EB 05 JMP SHORT Thief.0050ECCD
0050ECC8 > E8 13FFFFFF CALL Thief.0050EBE0
0050ECCD > 85C0 TEST EAX,EAX
0050ECCF . 74 05 JE SHORT Thief.0050ECD6
0050ECD1 .^ E9 6AFBFFFF JMP Thief.0050E840
0050ECD6 > 33C0 XOR EAX,EAX
0050ECD8 . C3 RETN
Test_copy_protect is inactive by default, only_check_path is active.
First, it pushes cd_path from install.cfg on stack (like C:\programs\Thief), checks if files are present, then it pushes a second patch on stack (C:\ is replaced with the first letter that returned 5 in eax for getdrivetypea), now it looks for the files on Y:\programs\Thief. C:... is the data_path, Y:... check_path. If files not there bad boy msg called. It never touches my second drive Z:

[Waterdust]

As is shown in the jpg I made for ya cow, F:\Games\Thief

but it'd be nice to have a standard C: default-based one as well if you don't mind please.


Oh and I'm sure this other error is because of that cfg not being changed yet but just incase.


Faulting application thief1.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thief1.exe, version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x001203aa.

0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 74 68 69 ure thi
0018: 65 66 31 2e 65 78 65 20 ef1.exe
0020: 31 2e 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 1.9.0.0
0028: 69 6e 20 74 68 69 65 66 in thief
0030: 31 2e 65 78 65 20 31 2e 1.exe 1.
0038: 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 61 74 9.0.0 at
0040: 20 6f 66 66 73 65 74 20 offset
0048: 30 30 31 32 30 33 61 61 001203aa
0050: 0d 0a ..

[DABhand]

What OS are you using.

And have you tried to run the crack in compatibility mode (Since its old you probably be best to run in either windows 98/2000 mode). You can do this by right clicking the .exe file and goto properties and check the compatibility tab.

I forgot if you said the game works fine with the original? If so you could make a mini-image of the disc, its probably the best way to go. Because the exe file from your original is obviously not the same from other older patched up versions of thief.

[Waterdust]

As posted before, Win XP Pro SP3 frequently updated as possible thru MS.

All compatibility modes have been used on the most recent fix by cow, same
error on each attempt at the same address.

According to Tippy I'm not allowed to make any form of iso small or big. Sorry.
The game works fine so long as the cd is used with the original exe it installs with.

As stated before the version of the Thief 1 cd I have is "Thief - Platinum Edition 1.33"

Hope that helps.

[DABhand]

I didnt say for you to make a full image of the game, but a mini-image you can mount on daemon tools to fool the protection the game is in a drive. There is a FAQ sticky on this part of the forum with hints and tips.

This way you can play without the disc.

[Cowsheep]

1368
Here, new install.cfg, copy also all files from disc to gamedir, but DO NOT overwrite existing ones.

I have also Win XP Sp 3 and no problems.

[TippeX]

ok, here goes.. time for waterdust to learn how to use a hexeditor... this is an adaptation of the crack i made for a different version.. it should work if you do it right..


.50E840 - patch area 1 - file offset 10DC40 - patch with 33 C0 40 C3 90 90
.50EB96 - patch area 2 - file offset 10DF96 - patch with 01
.50E89A - patch area 3 - file offset 10DF9A - patch with 33 C0 40 C3 90


now, our next part.. we need to edit up some files...

the install.cfg file is the important one...

mine looks like this...


cd_path .\
install_path d:\Thief
language english
resname_base d:\Thief+.\
load_path d:\Thief+.\
script_module_path d:\Thief+.\
movie_path d:\Thief\movies+.\movies
?


so try and make yours look similar (d:\thief is where i installed the same, so you will probably have to change this - note the '?' character at the end is actually a 1A character, im not sure if this is important or not..

that *SHOULD* do the trick - you will also need to launch it with oneprocessorlaunch (or similar) because the game
doesn't like systems with > 1 processor...

so, try it out and let us know

oh yeh, and copy all the files from the cd/dvd to the install folder too like cowsheep said..

[Waterdust]

Sorry cow, same error. Followed instructions, changed afinity (which didn't seem preset anymore that used to be) used compatibility modes even.

However the cd didn't appear to bring any new files with it btw.


*stares at tippys hex code an gets lost.. however understands the cfg code below.. mostly*

Sorry I'm not a programmer of sorts.. its why I came here =/

*does however continue to stare at the hex code in wonder..*

[TippeX]

well being a programmer is 0 to do with using a hex editor, its just like using notepad

0. make a backup copy of thief.exe (incase you make a mistake)
1. install hex workshop (www.bpsoft.com) - trial version and simple to use
2. open thief.exe with hex workshop
3. look at the bottom right of the status bar in the main window, make sure OVR is on (not gray) - if its off then press the INS key
4. press ctrl+g, select 'hex' and 'beginning of file'
5. type in 10DC40 and click the 'GO' button
6. in the hex window (the one thats blue) your area should be already highlighted
7. press the TAB button, it'll put you at the hex window
8. type in 33 C0 40 C3 90 90
9. you should see the bytes change but NONE of the other bytes 'move' - if they move you have OVR mode turned off
10. repeat the step for each of the 3 patches
11. save the exe
12. do the install.cfg stuff (and make sure you copied the files from the cd/dvd too)
13. try running the exe, see what happens (it should work, it does here)

3 patches, simple task, lets see how you get on..

[Waterdust]

Followed steps indicated by you, same error was the result.

If you don't believe that I did what you said then I can upload the exe for you.

Oh and before you ask, yes all 3 areas you said were modified with the editor not just
the one.

Additionally before anyone else asks, affinity was set & compatibility modes also tested.

---------

Faulting application thief1.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thief1.exe, version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x001203aa.

0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 74 68 69 ure thi
0018: 65 66 31 2e 65 78 65 20 ef1.exe
0020: 31 2e 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 1.9.0.0
0028: 69 6e 20 74 68 69 65 66 in thief
0030: 31 2e 65 78 65 20 31 2e 1.exe 1.
0038: 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 61 74 9.0.0 at
0040: 20 6f 66 66 73 65 74 20 offset
0048: 30 30 31 32 30 33 61 61 001203aa
0050: 0d 0a ..

[TippeX]

think you did something wrong, i'll upload my exe, it definately works here, so i suspect you typed in the 33 c0 40 c3 etc in the right most window (its meant to be in the blue one..)

http://rapidshare.com/files/339566131/waterdust_thief_nocd.rar.html

if this works, then you messed up.. if it doesn't work then you've messed up in some other way (probably the install.cfg or not copying all the files from the cd/dvd to the folder..)... lets see

[Waterdust]

Same error, sorry. Maybe I'm not being detailed enough with what happens..

I launch, the game menu shows full screen, click on start new game, an crash!
Doesn't matter if you start a new game with training or use skip training.

Once more, affinity set, modes tested, same problem.

-----------

Faulting application thief_nocd.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thief_nocd.exe, version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x001203aa.

0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 74 68 69 ure thi
0018: 65 66 5f 6e 6f 63 64 2e ef_nocd.
0020: 65 78 65 20 31 2e 39 2e exe 1.9.
0028: 30 2e 30 20 69 6e 20 74 0.0 in t
0030: 68 69 65 66 5f 6e 6f 63 hief_noc
0038: 64 2e 65 78 65 20 31 2e d.exe 1.
0040: 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 61 74 9.0.0 at
0048: 20 6f 66 66 73 65 74 20 offset
0050: 30 30 31 32 30 33 61 61 001203aa
0058: 0d 0a ..

[TippeX]

ok, when do you set the affinity and how...?

[Cowsheep]

All exes with 2187KB are already multicore / hyperthreading fixed, i found an older 1.33 one with 2188KB. Here, that is not fixed.1372

[Blazkowicz]

@TippeX
In Task Manager you can set it.

[TippeX]

well aware of the task manager thing blazi, but by then its usually too late (especially for this game) - usually for old games you have to launch suspended, set the affinity then resume, doing it via task manager is often too late

[Waterdust]

I'm unaware of how to set the affinity other than thru task manager, meaning the game is loaded then tab'd out affinity set, tab or click back in an start new game = crash.

However c.modes are switched on accordingly thru properties before anything is loaded.

Now to try out that rar from cow. (seems he misnamed the file.. i'll correct it tho)

[Waterdust]

New error? address is different no?


Faulting application thief2.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thief2.exe, version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x0012027a.

0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 74 68 69 ure thi
0018: 65 66 32 2e 65 78 65 20 ef2.exe
0020: 31 2e 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 1.9.0.0
0028: 69 6e 20 74 68 69 65 66 in thief
0030: 32 2e 65 78 65 20 31 2e 2.exe 1.
0038: 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 61 74 9.0.0 at
0040: 20 6f 66 66 73 65 74 20 offset
0048: 30 30 31 32 30 32 37 61 0012027a
0050: 0d 0a ..

[Cowsheep]

Different address, but still the very same function (loading fonts) make game crash.

[TippeX]

maybe run filemon / something to report file access on the machine then we can see the error, but i think its fair to say the error isn't with the crack, its something else, quite possibly even a corrupted file...

[Waterdust]

filemon = unknown command in dos, do u mean a program?

I got process monitor (previously called filemon) an woah does it have tons of stuff logged..
Where do I begin here?

[DABhand]

for the love of god use a mini image lol

[Joe Forster/STA]

C'mon, follow TippeX's example of utmost patience! ;)

[Waterdust]

DAB - No avatar for you! oh an FOR THE LOVE OF THE NET GET A BETTER ISP!! (LIKE CABLE) =P

I'm just waiting on directions for that program.

[DABhand]

I have 100mb connection (cable)

[TippeX]

process explorer is ok too, you're looking for file access.. most notably file access which FAILED... to see if its actually loading the files... there is of course the possibility that some files are damaged.. but it works with the original exe and disk yep?

[Waterdust]

Dab - Pfft..100mb cable.. then I should get larger pics, quit yer whinin over a bity o'l thing =p

Yes the original exe + cd = game works fine.

I'm lost as to what to do with the program to give you the info you seek however..

[newone111]

people need to use timeslip's modified executable to run this on multicore systems and high-performance graphics adapters.

google for timeslip ddfix and download the latest version!

[DABhand]

Dab - Pfft..100mb cable.. then I should get larger pics, quit yer whinin over a bity o'l thing =p

Yes the original exe + cd = game works fine.

I'm lost as to what to do with the program to give you the info you seek however..

Why did the ISP thing come up anyway? You are totally lost in the head.

[Cowsheep]

I cracked this one:
http://www.saleck.net/Downloads/Thief-TheDarkProjectGold/DDFix-Thief1.zip
(Source: http://www.ttlg.mobi/ddfix-and-enhanced-resolution-patch-including-widescreen-support-thread-121449-page-1.aspx)

Again, it works for me, guess another crash and i know the offset already:rolleyes:


Read this, too.
http://www.saleck.net/Games/Thief1-Gold/Thief-HowToGetWorking.php

(The thief.exe offered here is the same like above.)

[Waterdust]

@ Cow - First download gives the error - Direct X v6 or higher is not installed.

2nd download sfv says 36 files missing or damaged, and same DX error.

Oh an the page you added I'll have to go thru that more indepth which I've not
done just yet bbl about this.. though since the 2 dl's didn't work.. what next?

@ Dab - Uhm.. I thought you were on 56k or some old crap complaining about pic sizes.. ehh.. nvm I guess.

[DABhand]

Pic sizes?????

No latest Direct X noticed? Thats strange considering you said you played the game with the original.

[Cowsheep]

Sry for DX error, forgot to upload a dll.

This ddfixed exe uses a faked directdraw.dll, he didnt had it so game thought no direct x installed.
Didnt see it at the beginning, damn delayed imports.

Send me your dark.cfg and cam.cfg please.

[Waterdust]

http://www.2shared.com/file/10967041/bba3eba8/CFG.html

I believe these are the originals, as I don't recall you having me over write them
with anything custom before. Let me know if they appear to be mod'd by you cow.

I've tried out your files.. another error but you were prolly aware of that.
"Error - Resolution in cam.cfg does not match that given in ddfix.ini"

[Cowsheep]

Try this one.

[Waterdust]

Sorry.. error once more.

-----------------------

Faulting application thief2.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thief2.exe, version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x001203fa.

0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 74 68 69 ure thi
0018: 65 66 32 2e 65 78 65 20 ef2.exe
0020: 31 2e 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 1.9.0.0
0028: 69 6e 20 74 68 69 65 66 in thief
0030: 32 2e 65 78 65 20 31 2e 2.exe 1.
0038: 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 61 74 9.0.0 at
0040: 20 6f 66 66 73 65 74 20 offset
0048: 30 30 31 32 30 33 66 61 001203fa
0050: 0d 0a ..

[Cowsheep]

Same problem while loading fonts or text, unrar this to gamedir.

Do have antivirus, firewall running, DEP on, downloaded eax files fromthe thief fix guide (link a few posts above) already?

Thief platinum version includes also thief 2, sure we talk about thief 1 dark project?

[Waterdust]

Yes I'm sure we're talking about thief 1 dark project, in advance no I didn't confuse
the exe files in some odd sort. I happen to keep & test multiple exe's I've been given
from you, before you ask yes each one gets renamed normally an tested. You just
happen to get the first error report if it matches the normally named one.

I delete old exe versions you send me at a certain point also.
I also test backwards on exe's if we change cfg files or add files as an example.

An you prolly expected it.. another error. Without the 2 on the file name =p

-----------------

Faulting application thief.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thief.exe, version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x001203fa.

[Cowsheep]

Maybe 1.37 files work for you.....

[Waterdust]

I guess the error below means nope? *sighs*

--------------

Faulting application thief.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thief.exe, version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x001203fa.

================

Lets see if this helps anyone resolve this issue.. here's some specs

-------------------------
Laptop Model: Asus C90s
Manufacturer: ASUSTeK Computer INC.
BIOS Vendor: American Megatrends Inc.
BIOS Version: 1002
-------------------------
CPU: Intel Core 2 6600 @ 2.40 Ghz - Voltage 1.2
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT - 256MB DDR3
Driver Version - 186.81
RAM: 3GB Corsair
MATSHITA - DVD-RAM - UJ-850S - v1.21
Lock Detected for this device.
-------------------------
Windows XP Pro SP3 - Updated Regularly
Dot Net Versions - 1.1 / 2.0 SP2 / 3.0 SP2 / 3.5 SP1
Virus Scanner: Avast! / Firewall: Zone Alarm
-------------------------

[Cowsheep]

Open install.cfg and DELETE the line that starts with Cd_path entirely. Leave it blank.
Now try to play with any of mine or Tippex cracked thief exes.

Update your graphic card driver, too. Try to play with disabled antivirus and firewall.

[Waterdust]

Sorry for the delay, that is the latest version for my vga from all that I can find, the other
new versions apply to some other models or something.

Driver Site (http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/) which appears to be down >.>

I've been testing with firewall & AV turned off which imo is a bit much for a no cd fix.
I've gone over all the old exe's before.

(Editing for this post was never finished, see my next post.)

[Cowsheep]

http://www.nvidia.com/object/notebook_winxp_195.62_whql.html
Tried removing the line that starts with cd_path inside install.cfg already? Also tried it with your original exe?

[Waterdust]

Instead of using 195.62, I'm updating to 196.43. I wasn't aware the 19x series
applied to my video card at all, first time I looked into it appeared to be specially
designed for the newer aged cards.. my mistake lol.

Anyways yeah removed the line, another error, about to install the new drivers
an give it another go, then I'll post the next error if any.

--------------

Yep another error with newest video driver installed too, I kept the line you asked
removed from the install.cfg file then tried adding it back, going back to the original
cfg yet all give errors, don't think I need to post the error do I? o.0

[DABhand]

Like I said... mini-image will be better here. You are all fussing about a crack you will never get to work, because you have two different versions of thief.

[Cowsheep]

Like Tippex said, it is possibly without exe patching.
You have to:
- Add Skip_Starting_Checks at the end of cam.cfg AND
- remove the cd_path line in install.cfg (do not remove it, it should be blank, 2nd line should be install_path)

If it still crashes WITH ORIGINAL EXE then, you forgot to copy some files from the disc or the paths inside install.cfg are wrong. (Copy content of intrface dir to main dir, overwrite files is worth trying.)

[Waterdust]

I know nothing of a mini image.. or how to create this said image.
Let alone what specifically would be IN the image.

I can't give a full one.. so to clarify I'm confused.
Oh an even more so with don't delete.. but leave blank? delete = blank? o.0
>.<

[Zulu]

I know nothing of a mini image.. or how to create this said image.
Try the attached one; maybe it works with your version.
Mount the mds file with DAEMON Tools or Alcohol.

[Cowsheep]

Upload you cam.cfg and install.cfg, ill do it for you.


(Example)
1
2
3

1
3 (Line 2 deleted)

1

3 (Line 2 left blank)

[Waterdust]

Link here for CFG (http://www.2shared.com/file/11318396/7f805a8b/CFG.html)

[Cowsheep]

Here,
and post what files with what size are inside intrface dir in gamefolder.

[Waterdust]

Just another error = end result there.

I'll work on the data you asked for.

[Cowsheep]

You should use this new cfgs together with your ORIGINAL thief.exe or the one from here.http://www.thief-thecircle.com/download.asp?fid=726

Also try reinstall game in the very same folder like before and replace cfgs then.

[Waterdust]

Clean install, copied just the cfg's and got the direct x doesn't exist error - game's start menu followed accepting that error an thus starting the game = usual error.
----------------
If I put in the direct x fix files given to me the same process & errors happen.
----------------
Repeat process with your/the INTRFACE copied = same results
----------------
PAL copied and same results.
----------------
Copied over a variety of the games system files given to me from here = no disk in drive.
----------------
Copied over MOVIES & SAVES that I had backed up from previous install = no disk in drive.
----------------
Copied over another intrface.crf file I had, same issue.
----------------
Copied over current test exe, same dx error, same usual error.
----------------
I don't know now if I simply checked the "don't show me this error again" box before by habit an maybe that's how that error went away.. yeah I know >.> I can feel the glare coming on that one.
Yes these events are in the order they happened from this clean install.

[Zulu]

Using a (mini-)image might fix a 'no disk in drive' error ;)

[Cowsheep]

Clean install in same dir like before and JUST that cfgs from here: http://fileforums.com/showpost.php?p=382634&postcount=114

[Waterdust]

@ zulu the purpose is to not use any iso's -.- otherwise it ain't a true "no cd" fix.

@ cow those steps are one by one after a clean install, not all done then attempted.
unless u mean to try another set of cfgs then hang on.. brb.

--------

I tested those before.. oh wait.. thru new clean install you mean.. yeah.. brb again.

[Waterdust]

---------------------
Clean install
---------------------
Copied the cfg's you said, Direct X Error, game crashes with usual error.
---------------------
Copied the DX fix files, DX Error, another usual crash follows.
---------------------
Copied complete MOVIE folder in, DX Error, usual error.
---------------------
Copied PAL folder in, DX Error, usual error.
---------------------
Copied INTRFACE folder in, DX Error, another usual error follows.
---------------------
Copied over various other edited files from here, No CD Error.
---------------------
Copied over current No CD fix, DX Error, usual error.
---------------------

Sorry.. did what I could here.

[Muyfa666]

Waterdust, it seems you been trying to get this to work since 2009-12-17. That's 2 straight months!

Seriously, sometimes the force of will isn't enough. Some games will never run perfect on modern hardware, and that includes the cracks. Not trying to be an arse, just saying.

[Cowsheep]

I bet the fault is a path inside install.cfg, the cracks work fine.
I changed the path for the files with the text strings, loading them caused the crash probably.
This should work for a clean install in F:\Games\Thief

For other dir, simply open install.cfg with notepad and replace every F:\Games\Thief with C:\Program Files\Games\Thief e.g.

1. Clean install in F:\Games\Thief
2. Unpack attachment to gamedir, overwrite files, and NOTHING MORE.

[Zulu]

@ zulu the purpose is to not use any iso's -.- otherwise it ain't a true "no cd" fix.
Of course, but i thought you might be interested in an MI.
It's just an option ;)

[Waterdust]

Waterdust, it seems you been trying to get this to work since 2009-12-17. That's 2 straight months!

Seriously, sometimes the force of will isn't enough. Some games will never run perfect on modern hardware, and that includes the cracks. Not trying to be an arse, just saying.

I forget that old saying.. went something like ain't nothin in life worth doin is easy, an then there was one like if it's worth doin, it's worth doin right.

Of course it's hard to fix.. of course it'll take time.. *trying to be optimistic or
somethin here*

-----------------

@ cow - I'm lookin into it now, brb.

[Waterdust]

As you said.

1. Clean install in F:\Games\Thief
2. Unpack attachment to gamedir, overwrite files, and NOTHING MORE.

Sigh.. DX Error & below.
-----------
Faulting application thief.exe, version 1.9.0.0, faulting module thief.exe, version 1.9.0.0, fault address 0x001203fa.

0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 74 68 69 ure thi
0018: 65 66 2e 65 78 65 20 31 ef.exe 1
0020: 2e 39 2e 30 2e 30 20 69 .9.0.0 i
0028: 6e 20 74 68 69 65 66 2e n thief.
0030: 65 78 65 20 31 2e 39 2e exe 1.9.
0038: 30 2e 30 20 61 74 20 6f 0.0 at o
0040: 66 66 73 65 74 20 30 30 ffset 00
0048: 31 32 30 33 66 61 0d 0a 1203fa..

[Cowsheep]

Is the gamedir 604 MB big? (Right click on Thief folder in F:\Games, then click on properties.)
With ALL files in gamedir you CANT get the DX 6 missing error.

[Waterdust]

290mb, 72 files, 2 folders.

Clearly I'm missing something.. but what? I clean installed an only added what you said, nothing more.

Sigh.. I'll look into if the movie dir is lacking while you reply.

[Cowsheep]

Copy the WHOLE content of the THIEF dir on disc into your gamefolder, all files and folders. But DO NOT overwrite something.
You noticed the different crash offset?
This means loading the fonts and textstrings is now working the function that causes the crash now is executed later on.

[Waterdust]

Well I copied the contents of the thief dir from the cd over like you asked, an yeah
the game runs without the cd.. however.. DX error remains an the game appears to be
running at a faster speed like "turbo".

Congrats on solving the no cd issue.. now those are all that remain =)

-------------------------------
"Thief requires 100% DirectX 6 compatible drivers for your video/3d card.
If you do not have such drivers, you may experience some problems
while running Thief.

If you experience rendering problems, or system crashes please update
the drivers for your card by contacting your card or PC manufacturer.

If you have a video card with 3d FX Voodoo 2 chipset, drivers have
been provided on the Thief CD, in the Drivers folder.

Please consult the Readme file for more detailed information."

< > Don't show me this message again.

OK
-------------------------------

Yet.. DX Installed = 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904) hmm..

[TippeX]

you're multi core cpu aren't you? if so, use oneprocessorlaunch (or similar) to get around the turbo thing... funny, how if you had have actually copied all the files and followed the instructions you got many times we would have saved 2+ months...

[Cowsheep]

Not 2 months at all, the idea with skip_starting_checks, removing cd_path and change one line so that the archive with fonts and text was read i covered later.

Do you have the files ddfix.dll and ddfix.ini in your gamedir?

(ddfix.dll is a patched directdraw.dll and import in thief.exe is changed to load ddfix.dll. Missing this file lets the game think no DX installed.)

[Waterdust]

Yes both files are in here, much like you an I both know all the files you've asked me to
keep/put/etc should be.

[Cowsheep]

Try this exe:http://www.thief-thecircle.com/download.asp?fid=726

[Waterdust]

Alright I'll give it a shot, but isn't that going to mess up the files you gave me?
It's an exe file that applies to 1.33 also.

PS: I just reformatted my windows so give me a few hours or so (wanted to
flush out unrelated problems).

[Cowsheep]

It does not mess up something.

[Waterdust]

2nd format in 48 hours.. brb.. sigh.

[Waterdust]

Ok I'm back.. fixed my dot net issues. Gonna get thief installed an hopefully
finish this issue up.. brb asap.

[TippeX]

well, considering the dot net stuff is NOT related to thief.. you sort of just ran around in circles for nothing :)....

[Waterdust]

yes yes.. dot net had nothing to do with it.. i just make posts like that for the purpose of letting people know "hey i'm alive" kinda thing.. oh hell u get the idea =p

Anyways.. applied that exe u said cow, sorry same DX issue, same speed issue.
Oh an I made sure it was set to 1 cpu before someone chimes in about it >.>

Oh an for tippy.. ya know what? by goin thru all that double format crap I ensured
that all the problems here weren't the result of some other garbage in windows =p
cuz all my OS/system/game/driver files are new & clean ^.^

[Cowsheep]

Search for ddraw.dll and copy it to your gamedir.

[Waterdust]

Same results.

However given the nature of this task an how long it's taking I'd think some more people would contribute..
of course I'm sure their just happy faping to their extensive pron collection =)

Meantime keep up the good work cow ^.^ I'm sure you'll figure it out soon.

[Joe Forster/STA]

I've been watching this thread with significant amusement but this is getting a bit too much...

However given the nature of this task an how long it's taking I'd think some more people would contribute..

Uhm, why exactly? To be told "no, it doesn't help" within minutes and "oh, well, last time I didn't actually try what you wrote but I did now and, hell, it works!" a week and half a dozen insisting replies later? I would've thought that people give up and let you continue with your quest alone.

Let me translate what you said into plain English: "I am struggling like hell, don't you see, and fuck everyone who is just sitting around, watching this thread but not helping me." With this attitude of yours, I'm amazed to see that some people are still trying to help you.

of course I'm sure their just happy faping to their extensive pron collection =)

... or doing something useful, unlike trying to help you. With all the resources wasted in this thread, one could've rewritten half of the game, perhaps, even made it work on a PowerPC Macintosh under MacOS.

[Waterdust]

Nice to see "Joe" can take jokes, now go on scoot, back to whence you came =p

Oh an before you go.. be sure not to take peoples words out of context next time ok?
I did that once an we all had one big brawl.. lets not do that again ^.^

[Cowsheep]

Copy the files from the archive (last one i have uploaded) to the dir C:\Windows\System32

Maybe the game reads the files from here.

[Waterdust]

Seems I may or may have not mentioned that when the game begins the narrator says how you
shouldn't walk into the light which naturally causes you to start over, however.. it is broken here
an nothing happens (this has been the case since the first no cd worked of yours cow).

I copied over those files you said, but nothing has changed as the result of that.

===========

In the meantime.. for the enjoyment of others while we wait.

http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab316/Waterdust2000/GFL1.png
The main site can be found here (http://www.garfield.com/) incase someone wants it.

[Cowsheep]

Skip tutorial?

[Waterdust]

Edited by me - Theres still a chance it'd prolly render
future interactives inoperable more than likely.

Meantime hows the hunt on DX an stuff?

[Cowsheep]

Download and install this:http://filehippo.com/download_directx/

[Joe Forster/STA]

Good idea, this URL! Let me add it to the FAQ...

[Waterdust]

What about this one for the paranoid people? - btw thanks cow, i been using august's release, didn't know they updated it.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=0CEF8180-E94A-4F56-B157-5AB8109CB4F5&displaylang=en

[Joe Forster/STA]

I've been downloading stuff from FileHippo for several months and, sometimes, checked it against the "genuine" download on the authors' sites. You shouldn't worry about stuff on FileHippo, it's the same as the real one. (The PC Games forum FAQ mentions both for DirectX.)

[Waterdust]

Be that as it may, I just thought I'd suggest throwing that up for such people.

Meantime.. @ cow - well I tested that out, it appears fine there, though the game speed
remains an issue along with the direct x error even with the updated DX files.

[Cowsheep]

Try one this tools for the speed issue:
http://www.sierrahelp.com/Utilities/SlowdownUtilities.html

Unrar this to your gamedir AND C:\Windows\System32

[Waterdust]

I'll make this shorter than I was gonna.. I kept sys32 as it was, put those new ones into
the game dir (it's a long story as to why so don't ask) an nothing had changed, however
I did notice that I was finally able to turn on "hardware mode" inside the game.. now I'm
not sure without reinstalling the game all over again an repeating the fix one file at a time
(it's my method.. dun ask) until fully done.

However the game speed issue is now fixed be it in part to the new files.. or some other
reason I'm entirely unaware of. All that remains is the DX error which appears to have no
impact on the game anyways.. so I'm not sure what you wanna do from here.

(Bearing in mind hardware mode used to also cause our original crash at one point
and yes before someone asks I've been testing that option each time up till now.)

I'm gonna run some more of my own tests later when I have some more time though.

[Cowsheep]

http://fileforums.com/showpost.php?p=382927&postcount=123

The files here have some graphic improvements included, the game is generally much sharper.

[Waterdust]

Those files don't change anything with hardware mode off however the game screen
shows some sort of "the screen mode you chose couldn't be used" sort of message.

Enabling hardware mode on like before just makes the game go black an all you can
see are the health icons (with those files).

[Cowsheep]

You must play without improvements then:http://www.thief-thecircle.com/download.asp?fid=726

[Waterdust]

I agree that's the only way to make it work.

I suppose now all that's left is a full start to finish test run =) we'll see what happens
an I'll report my findings but I'm sure your confident in your work cow =p what could
go wrong with it now right? ^.~ lol..

Anyways it's up to you if you wanna try to kill off the annoying DX error, it appears
to have no effect on anything up to this point so yeah.

These are the files I'm using, the texture fix exe supplied and your mod'd various other files
you can check them out here. (Disabled by me)

I wrote my own lil read me file for my archives, I've no intentions of passing it out
but you can decide on that. If the game plays thru fully without error I'd like to say
someone should throw it up somewhere for other people as that was the purpose
of this entire thing was so that others could enjoy having the platinum edition work
without a CD.

You'll notice the lil readme I made gives you an the thief site credit =)

[Waterdust]

After quite sometime I finished going thru the game start to finish. However it's time
to note that cut scenes don't always play if at all an the ending cut scene doesn't
launch either. The direct x error that states I should at least have version 6 installed
still keeps poping up with each launch also.

Otherwise the game appears to "play" fairly well. I'm sure at this point no one
is interested in resolving these few issues.. which is a shame.. oh and I should also
point out that if one uninstalls the game an reinstalls it for the purpose of running it
back off the cd to allow cut scenes to operate normally & remove the direct x error
forget it.. even if you remove the extra files for making the no-cd work an reboot
5x an/or not clear up registry issues that still won't change anything for it.

My thanks still go out to cowsheep for helping as he appears retired now.

[Cowsheep]

Thats a missaunderstading, im still here.
Try this.

You have a movies dir in your game folder, right?
Any codec packs installed?

[Waterdust]

As requested - [Disabled by me]

[Cowsheep]

Try this, unrar all to gamedir.

[Waterdust]

"Resolution in cam.cfg doesn't match that given in ddfix.ini"

My version of the file should you need it. (http://www.2shared.com/file/8RhRJy-i/ddfix.html)

[Cowsheep]

Fixed cam.cfg

[Waterdust]

Well the movies appear to be working.. don't know about the ending.. gotta play thru
that level all over again (clean install prior wiped my final save -.- ).

Luckily I just have to redo the last level.. I took some saves off the net =p so we'll see
how that goes. However the direct X 6 error remains an now.. oddly when a game is
loaded the top left corner has some strange square that is distorted kinda, rather large
square too. Only resolve to it is to windows key out of the game an click back in to
remove it thus far.. haven't tested to see if it "stays" gone.. I'll know when I redo the
final level for the ending cut scene.

I'll get to work on that now, unless you have any other adjustments? oh btw.. that
stupid direct x 6 error even carries over to thief 2 when I launch it.

Also if anyone knows who made the no cd fix for thief 3, why did they knock out the
version number that used to be on the start screen? I know there'll be no answer most
likely but thought I should ask anyways.. who knows someone MIGHT just know
something lol.

[Cowsheep]

For Thief 3, there is also an unprotected Exe on Gcw.

For Dx Error:
Copy start.bat to gamedir, open it with Notepad and replace C:\Thief with your path. Dont touch the rest, only C:\Thief.

For Thief 2, change the exe name in the second line, too.

[Waterdust]

I'm aware of the no cd fix online, it's the one I'm using from there.

As for the DX error.. copied file exactly as instructed, edited as instructed.
No changes however for thief 1 or 2.

Also I noticed thus far that the resolution options are sooo much lower than before for
thief 1. What's up with that? maybe that has something to do with the distortion square
that I can now confirm keeps coming back.

[Cowsheep]

distortion square??
Screenshot pls.

[Waterdust]

Would love to.. maybe if I could get a dig-cam for a min.
---------------------------------------
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
---------------------------------------

On the top left would be the square, it holds a part of the windows desktop in it
an flashes alot. The forum won't let me do the right edges in text.. you get the size.

I'll look for a dig-cam to try for a SS later tho.

[Waterdust]

Five years later, I haven't forgotten this issue. I think steam has the game possibly solved, who knows.. I don't have time to check right now.

Thanks for the help however & if someone would delete this thread & any other posts of mine from the forum that'd be nice.