View Full Version : REQ: Stolen trainers to be removed from GCW
(See the premises.)
maybe because Kelsat is a ripper hackjob that has no real talent other than using the copy/paste function? just a guess.
maybe because Kelsat is a ripper hackjob that has no real talent other than using the copy/paste function? just a guess.
Now you have shown yourself to be an idiot.
Go sit in the corner and listen to daddy.
Kel is more than capable than caliber is, Kel has done options in the past that no-one else has done, so your ripper comment is stupid. Im sure caliber if he was here looking at this thread would say the same thing.
So go learn some manners, and also stop advertising CH in a stupid silly way.
Now you have shown yourself to be an idiot.
Go sit in the corner and listen to daddy.
Kel is more than capable than caliber is, Kel has done options in the past that no-one else has done, so your ripper comment is stupid. Im sure caliber if he was here looking at this thread would say the same thing.
So go learn some manners, and also stop advertising CH in a stupid silly way.
is this the real DAB? are you crazy? i take offense old buddy, to your statement that Kelsat is more capable than I am. I would DEFINITELY NOT say the same thing and actually am surprised that you would write this. Have you not seen the progression of trainer releases. I have not only done OPTIONS that kelsat hasn't done, I HAVE DONE ENTIRE TRAINERS that NO-ONE has done.
As for kelsat's original trainer options, what he does is download our trainers, rip our options, and then add an option here or there because I HAVE DONE ALL THE PRELIM WORK FOR HIM. I don't always have time to add 10 options to a game right off the bat, since I am working on 10 TITLES AT ONCE plus PATCHES. If you notice I will go back for the bigger titles and add more options to them.
I have no real problems with other trainer makers and people making trainers. However Kelsat is a big exception because he takes our trainers and rips them, even the intentional coding mistakes we put in them. THis has been debated many times before, but it's the factual truth. They even admitted that they stole code within cheatengine.org forums (if the postings are still there).
If you think that Kelsat is a more capable trainer maker than myself after the hundreds and hundres of titles i have worked on, many of which were practically UNTRAINABLE (but I did it), then we have some big differences of opinion and I am somewhat confused and surprised to say the least...
it takes a little work to reverse someone else's option and then put out your trainer 5 days later with 'more' options, but don't put that sort of trainer making in the same league with people who make their own from scratch (and have it available within hours of game release).
best,
Cal
PS: thanks for the nice comments from members and if you are reading this KELSAT then enjoy your undeserved 15 mins of fame off of our back. once we figure out your account with us you can bet you won't be getting our work any more...without our trainers you are nothing... also note our subscriptions are up over 100 percent this year, LOL, even in this down economy! i hope you are enjoying all the zero dollars you are getting for your releases that you are trying to cop as your own. you enjoying the late night hours for free? have phun!
Hey guys as the subject indicates itself the problem can any one help or any one else encountring this problem trainers tried but not working are:
Burnout Paradise
TC Endwar
Mirror's Edge
our CH burnout paradise trainer is free in like 3 days:
http://www.cheathappens.com/cheat_index.asp?titleID=14884
for TC ENDWAR if you have D2D version , it's free:
http://www.cheathappens.com/cheat_index.asp?titleID=14925
our Mirror's Edge trainers are all free:
http://www.cheathappens.com/cheat_index.asp?titleID=14499
notice also that we are supporting these titles through all the patches.
have a nice day-
best,
Cal
is this the real DAB? are you crazy? i take offense old buddy, to your statement that Kelsat is more capable than I am. I would DEFINITELY NOT say the same thing and actually am surprised that you would write this. Have you not seen the progression of trainer releases. I have not only done OPTIONS that kelsat hasn't done, I HAVE DONE ENTIRE TRAINERS that NO-ONE has done.
As for kelsat's original trainer options, what he does is download our trainers, rip our options, and then add an option here or there because I HAVE DONE ALL THE PRELIM WORK FOR HIM. I don't always have time to add 10 options to a game right off the bat, since I am working on 10 TITLES AT ONCE plus PATCHES. If you notice I will go back for the bigger titles and add more options to them.
I have no real problems with other trainer makers and people making trainers. However Kelsat is a big exception because he takes our trainers and rips them, even the intentional coding mistakes we put in them. THis has been debated many times before, but it's the factual truth. They even admitted that they stole code within cheatengine.org forums (if the postings are still there).
If you think that Kelsat is a more capable trainer maker than myself after the hundreds and hundres of titles i have worked on, many of which were practically UNTRAINABLE (but I did it), then we have some big differences of opinion and I am somewhat confused and surprised to say the least...
it takes a little work to reverse someone else's option and then put out your trainer 5 days later with 'more' options, but don't put that sort of trainer making in the same league with people who make their own from scratch (and have it available within hours of game release).
best,
Cal
PS: thanks for the nice comments from members and if you are reading this KELSAT then enjoy your undeserved 15 mins of fame off of our back. once we figure out your account with us you can bet you won't be getting our work any more...without our trainers you are nothing... also note our subscriptions are up over 100 percent this year, LOL, even in this down economy! i hope you are enjoying all the zero dollars you are getting for your releases that you are trying to cop as your own. you enjoying the late night hours for free? have phun!
Hmmm Are you sure about this?
From what I seen, Kel managed to get a few options on TLR before you did Cal..
Either way, as you know im protective over trainer makers, and BigBoi who I think I know who it is now, who originally came in and did his thing like in Gamefaqs, so I protected.
Still if you have proof im all ears buddy.
Seems this is true, and Kelset and H4x0r are ripping injection/shifting routines from others trainers.
Empire perhaps it would be best if you removed them, like other sites have so far, It will dent GCW rep if you host them I think.
Seems this is true, and Kelset and H4x0r are ripping injection/shifting routines from others trainers.
Empire perhaps it would be best if you removed them, like other sites have so far, It will dent GCW rep if you host them I think.
sorry to get so upset dab, my friend. only a few things set me off and this is just one of those topics. thanks for your response and apologies if i cut you the wrong way and went a little too far- you are one of the few unpartial people out there with no particular agenda, as well as a helpful poster on these forums....
best,
Cal
here's a message i am passing along to you from Chris at CH:
starts here:
-------------
Unfortunately this is the very reason why we have stopped sending our trainers to be hosted by GCW. We do not want to be associated with a site that knowingly supports and encourages the likes of Kelsat and h4x0r that rip trainer options from us and other groups. We feel that it’s extremely disrespectful to those people that are doing all of the hard work to bring this content to your visitors every day. This list includes, but is not limited to Veggy, Brewers, sheep, Cal, DAB and others. I’ve personally spoken to several of these people (they contacted me) and it’s a real shame that GCW is quickly losing the support of the truly talented trainer makers out there in favor of rippers like Kelsat.
I’ve attempted to speak with Empire about this issue and I know that others have as well, but it always seems to fall on deaf ears. It’s very unfortunate as we have sent many a visitor this way in the past whenever a no-cd fix is needed. I’ve also done personal favors for Empire without a second thought when he’s asked. I guess the content that people like Kelsat and h4x0r provide is more important than long-term relationships that have been established with the core trainer community and the reputation of the website.
ends here:
----------------
another example of the kelsat continuation:
wheelman trainer- we had our trainer out since tuesday. he has his trainer out late yesterday with the SAME options (except he added the useless stamina option so you could RUN forever in a driving game... lol). anyways calling the option 'vehicle nightmare' instead of 'carnage mode' like in our trainer doesn't make it any less of a ripoff of our trainer. also note that he hijacked the same INCORRECT code spot for the vehicle life as our ORIGINAL trainer, which we just updated today to take in account of the missions using a different method. what a loser-
just another example for empire so he can know why he's losing ours and others support when Kelsat gets bored, or gets a job or whatever and he has no one left to supply his site with content... as for us another record month of signups! thank you members for your support of our site.
look for (unsupported) copies of our last 4 or 5 trainers when he gets an illegal scene copy of the games. nice! lol.
best,
Cal
Why do I feel like a big bullseye lol :\
Joe Forster/STA
28-03-2009, 14:45
@Caliber: If you ask me, GCW aims - or should aim, if possible - for quality rather than quantity. (We've been running the forum with this more and more in mind for the last few years.) If you (or Chris from Cheathappens) describe the situation to me in a PM or an E-mail (preferred) and I understand them, I'll try to forward them to Empire in my own words. I assure you, he's not a malicious guy but 1) it is hard to make decisions on opinions only - yours is one, some other person's is also one - and 2) he has so damn few time that even I can hardly contact him for forum-related reasons.
If my word means anything, I have checked coding between trainers and even some non-challant/useless code is identical.
If you see from start of thread, I gave Kel the benefit of the doubt, then when told he has been ripping options I looked into it myself and it is true.
Even if say caliber and no-one else does a trainer for a game for 2 weeks, guarenteed 2 weeks neither will kelsat. And now he is building a false reputation of being a trainer maker when all he is doing is ripping coding via Olly.
I can point a finger at a couple of people who did tuts on this, but ultimately they are not the ones doing it.
Its like doing some hard work and when you go get paid for doing it, someone comes along and says they did it and gets your money.
Joe Forster/STA
28-03-2009, 16:12
For filtering, I would like to get the exact list of trainers that are stolen or the exact list of trainer authors whose trainers are all stolen.
i appreciate your responses and thoughts Joe, but that's impractical and probably impossible. We don't disassemble EVERY trainer from other trainer makers and test them all. It's only the ones that come out immediately after hours with the same exact options, then we look further and see if the code locations are the same, etc. then we might put in dummy code or have to repair and option and see that the other person's trainers have the same code as our old option. we are too busy and have too many things to contend with than to spend even more time trying to explain and prove this all over again. we are too busy to come in here and have a dossier of files, code chunks, and whatever 'evidence'. we are done with that. i would have thought that the word of ourselves, several other trainer makers (who really aren't friends of ours but still agree about kelsat), and the fact that they wrote that they were ripping our options in a posting on cheatengine.org themselves!
if you want to put kelsat's ripped work above ours then we can't participate here. i think that is what chris is trying to say up there-
also, it sounds like you are questioning the quality of our trainers? is this in comparison to kelsat's, specifically. in light of what we have been saying and what we wrote here, i am disappointed to hear that and this further erodes our relationship here.
at any rate, i don't want to turn this into something more than just a decision to cease ties due to intolerable decisions by the site owner, who has every right to make any decision he wants, just as we do for our own site and own purposes.
thanks again for at least acknowledging and replying but i don't see any progress in this and at this point i don't expect to.
best,
Cal
PS: I don't know what DAB means by having a target on him, but he has nothing to do with anything going on here, although i appreciate him looking at the trainers and etc. and making his own informed statements. I hope nobody blames or thinks of him any differently.
Hey chris can I get a big hammer to smack neo7 with, why does he pick on me all the time >.<
What he did the last time got me annoyed if you remember :P
Joe Forster/STA
28-03-2009, 18:57
Look at it from our point. I don't know about Empire, but although I'm a professional programmer and a hacker myself, I don't know much about today's copy protections or how to train today's games. (I've done that in the past, for DOS games, but not anymore. No time, no interest.) As such, we can only make decisions based on incoming reports. As haven't been using trainers for years - actually, haven't played a game for many months now; it's like sex after the nth X: you can't do it but you don't mind it much anymore either -, I don't even know the groups creating them. Now, how should I know which group is ripping off the work of which group? Scene groups are always sending fuck offs to each other in .nfo files, for real or not so real reasons...
However, as CheatHappens is a well-established maker of trainers, perhaps, a simplified way of reporting thieves should be the best compromise: if you can name us those people/groups who often rip off your own works, those could be banned from GCW. (That's not a promise, just a recommendation that I could forward to Empire, if you agree!)
However, it may well be possible that Empire will request something in change. Let me guess: e.g. a discount on CheatHappens membership for our forum members; special GCW releases of your trainers and/or trainers uploaded to GCW before other sites. Please, consider these, too. (Again, these are only my own ideas, without knowning anything about Empire's standpoint on this whole matter!)
also, it sounds like you are questioning the quality of our trainers?
Hell, no! I cannot question something that I haven't even seen... ;)
However, it may well be possible that Empire will request something in change. Let me guess: e.g. a discount on CheatHappens membership for our forum members; special GCW releases of your trainers and/or trainers uploaded to GCW before other sites. Please, consider these, too. (Again, these are only my own ideas, without knowning anything about Empire's standpoint on this whole matter!)
I am not affilated with both sides in anyway, but thats a bit too much.
Asking for discounts for users here for the promise of removing thieves' files, wow thats pretty dictatorist.
Joe Forster/STA
28-03-2009, 20:41
It was just an idea, not an ultimatum. I'm open to other suggestions, too.
We could play a stupid game where I'm the messenger, the CheatHappens people tell me something, I forward them to Empire then, after a week, forward back the answer, too, and this loop goes on endlessly. (And I'm pretty sure Empire won't want to deal with it personally.) To avoid this, I want to see problem closely, understand it and suggest possible solutions beforehands already.
Never said it was an ultimatum, just said the idea was pretty tough.
Chalirum
29-03-2009, 05:12
You want to remove Kelsat and h4x0r trainers because they use a stolen code? RIDICULES! GCW is a site full of cracks, most users use mu/rs/tpb and get cracks from this site. 100s of people work for months on a game and their work is stolen, but nobody cares here, this is a place for pirates.
Ignore Caliber and BigBoi, people won't stop using GCW because it is supporting pirates, lol.
Next thing you know people from EA will complain and you will consider removing cracks, lmao.
You have no idea what your talking about, and if you havent already read rule #1 of the forum and you will see this place is not for warez users.
You wouldnt understand because your mentality right now is get everything for free. Kelsat and h4x0r steal from other trainers, that is lowest of the low in terms of Trainer makers.
And if you again took the time to look before typing, you will notice none of EA's latest products have any cracks for here or at GCW, because the site does not support any cracks that bypass online authentication.
GCW does not support warez users, it supports people who wish to preserve their originals from over use. Hence why warez users get a swift kick in the balls here.
So again please do research a bit more before replying if you do ((your poor spelling looks familiar :P)) and before you say I dont know what im talking about, do research on me too.
EDIT: I notice your trying to reply to the thread, but seem to be taking forever to do so, could you please hurry up im in suspense here lol
Chalirum
29-03-2009, 06:17
You do realize that rule #1 is to cover admin in case he is sued. Admins actually love anyone who visits their page, pirate or a saint, they don't care, they get money from ads [more people = more ad views = more money]
All gamers I know use cracks from this page, they pirate games. I don't know why do you think that most people use cracks to save cd/dvd from scratching.
No doubt that most GCW users are pirates from bt, you can easily check this by going on any torrent page, almost every question about crack is answered by "go to gamecopyworl.com"
Picking on my "EA example" and spelling is a very poor form, lol, replace EA with Activision if it makes you feel any better, lol, English is not my native language, and yes I'm getting everything on my PC for free - games, soft, os.
Anyway, this discussion is pointless, you are not going to convince me of anything, no doubt that this goes both ways. I just wanted you all know that game pirates hate CH and love kelsat - another thing that you can see on any torrent page.
Ban [kick in the balls = ban?] my if you want, I don't have a static ip and know what a proxy is, so I'll continue to use cracks from this page.
1. Pirates are not warez users, this is what warez users like to call themselves, pirates are people who sell warez for profit.
2. Im sure there is people who misuse the site yes, but that is not the purpose of the site.
3. Im sure some are warez users who use lame bit torrent sites, because they dont have access to TS's, but people who are active mostly are not.
4. Wether it is EA or Activision et al, any cracks that will require online activation will never get hosted at GCW. And I said your bad spelling was familiar, I was not pointing fingers and laughing at you, but I can if you want :P
5. Nice way to say you steal games, yeah not so nice sounding is it when not using your "free" excuse.
6. Your original post was pointless, sure support the thief Kelsat if you want, its like looking in a mirror, as the old saying goes "thick as two thieves". So you would be in good company.
7. Question? What the hell is Endo Position anyways?
8. Hi Kelsat :P
Chalirum
29-03-2009, 06:30
7. Question? What the hell is Endo Position anyways?
Finger slipped :D
Finger slipped :D
Ahh I see
for me, code theft is code theft, the person stealing the code obviously does not have the skills required to do the work themselves and are just trying to make a name for themselves (at the real authors expense).. such actions only last a short time before people detect the truth...
for me, if even one example can be given of code theft from the original author (showing code that was injected etc, and the 'fake' code), then i am more than happy to analyse it and ask that the trainers using stolen code be removed
i've seen people using ripped code from my own tools and it does piss me off immensely so i fully understand the situation...
as for gcw being a bunch of pirates.. thats simply wrong, the rules are there about warez users.. anyone using warez on the site is banned, and there's quite a few cases of this happening recently
Joe Forster/STA
29-03-2009, 11:29
Some short answers, for clarification...
EA does complain about cracks for their games being hosted on GCW but so what? Also, cracks for their recent games are available on GameFix only as they're against GCW's (current) rule: only cracks against copy protections based on physical media are hosted.
We cannot know the exact purpose of GCW, the site, only Empire can. I have my guesses but I'm not sure if anyone would be interested. (Rest assured, it's not for the money coming from advertizers, though...) But it is a fact that the (current) rules strive to drive warez users away. However effective it is is quite similar to how effective other anti-piracy measures are: not much. It would be possible to create a site that no warez user can access - and it would be completely unusable, too, or its access would be so complicated that people would go to another site. What would be the point then? Compromises, people, compromises! On the other hand, I'm not sure if warez users actually need GCW: the vast majority of cracks, that appear on the site, originally come from a warez release that they probably have access to, in some way, if they already managed to get a pirated copy of the game.
As for the "activation cracks will never get hosted on GCW" idea, noone can tell for sure. Again, only one person knows the true purpose of the site and only he can make final decisions about it. There may be some day when such cracks will be hosted; it may simply depend on the ratio of interest from visitors vs. the "disinterest" from publishers.
Giving away/getting cracks for free and putting your name onto the work of some other person is different. We have an expression against the latter in Hungarian: "betyárbecsület" = "honor of rascals" (mirror translation); it means that criminals avoid messing with each other's interests. This also kind of shows in the pride of cracer groups sending fuck offs to each other for not fully working cracks, improper propers etc.: if insiders don't follow the rules and this behavior proliferates then the whole scene will break apart. [...] To avoid misunderstandings: I'm not suggesting that crackers or trainer authors are criminals - although the creations of either or both may be illegal in some countries. I'm merely pointing out that even criminals are supposed to have some hard limits of their own that no colleague may ever step through.
By the way, my mentality is also to get everything for free, if possible. I'm a communist, remember, and proud of it. But if there's any person with a different mentality, please, raise your hand: you have violated the second law of thermodynamics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics) already!
jeremy_mccurdy
29-03-2009, 15:26
Just saying from a user's point of view here:
It really doesn't bother me in the least that Kelsat is ripping out code from Cheathappens trainers simply due to the fact that I'll never end up paying for a trainer, and I don't like waiting for a month or more for the free release.
GCW will keep my return visits as long as they provide NOCD cracks(so I don't have to sift through endless piles of discs) and trainers that are virus free and functional. I'd prefer to download a free trainer that's a bit buggy regardless of who made it, over trainers that are just demos that promote a paid site.
That said, I can understand where the CH folks are coming from. No one likes to have their work stolen/modified/whatever.
Still, if Kelsat and h4x0r aren't putting trojans/malware in their trainers, then I say leave them be for those of us who'd rather spend our money on games.
Joe Forster/STA
29-03-2009, 15:46
The "give us lots of stuff, no matter what" attitude is only a short-term solution. If GCW adhered to it, it would've been shut down ages ago, so we need more than that.
jeremy_mccurdy
29-03-2009, 16:40
I can understand a quality over quantity approach, but when a trainer is of a relatively similar quality of another one that would require people to pay, I don't see why hosting the free one should be considered bad practise.
Joe Forster/STA
29-03-2009, 17:01
When the core is stolen from another program, it's pretty obvious that the two programs should be of similar quality, right? So, this fact makes no difference at all...
TippeX hates to see his code reused in another software without authorization; I don't do such "mainstream" software but mine was being used without authorization, too, and I wasn't happy about it either. I think you've been outvoted. ;)
jeremy_mccurdy
29-03-2009, 17:22
Yeah, but there's instances where a CH trainer is only available as a promo version for literally months while other full featured releases are available within days of the games release, some of these apparently use some code from CH trainers, but are free and available long before CH releases the full free version of their trainers.
So in that instance, Kelsat's trainers are of higher quality for people that aren't paying members of CH.
Joe Forster/STA
29-03-2009, 17:28
However, if GCW supports people stealing from CheatHappens, CheatHappens won't support GCW and then GCW users will get less CheatHappens releases in the long run. That's what I was talking about as short-term vs. long-term solution.
the people who pay for the trainers are the REASON THERE ARE TRAINERS AT ALL. we wouldn't be doing trainers for ALL GAMES FOR PC THAT ARE RELEASED (or about 99.9% of them) if we weren't supported by paying members. For some titles we have actually made a trainer for the retail, d2d, steam, and 'other' version (4 versions for one game!) for the same title. Nobody is going to buy 3 copies of a game and make a trainer for each copy and support those copies through all the patches and do it for free. good luck with that. THUSLY, you can thank the paying members for your 'free' kelsat trainers because without the paying members, our website would not be around, we would not be making trainers, and kelsat would not have trainers to copy, and therefore your base of trainers to choose from would be far less than it is now.
with that said, we are NOT the only trainer makers, and arguably there are many GREAT and BETTER coders out there and we mean no disrespect to those people who make original and quality trainers for games and DONT RIP other's work to do so-
however, the kelsat trainers you are getting are directly ripped from CH trainers, which were originally created for CH members.
it's nice to know, though, that warez people are at least being honest...
best,
Cal
hi guys.. been a while since ive been motivated enough to comment around here.. but i thought i would put my 2 pence in since ive been around a little while and seen the best and worst that the scene has to offer..
The phrase that is most prominant in this thread comes from our hungarian friend.. while his translation maybe correct the ACTUAL phrase used in the english language is "HONOR AMONGST THEIVES" his translation of the meaning though is perfect..
When your a member of something with an overtone of illegal or immoral questionability then to become balanced and to judge others you need a level playing field.. in other words.. you accept that there is a dividing line between them (corporate money men) and us (hobbyists, reversers, trainer makers) etc.. without the divide you cannot possibly judge others to your own standard.. stealing from your work place.. and stealing from your mothers home are both stealing.. but in your head.. you can easily see which one carries the more serious implications..
not to mention making trainers has absolutely fuck all to do with stealing code.. it has everything to do with the understanding, passion and amazing creativity of a reverse engineer.. the end result of a CRACK has 1 purpose only.. the final product of a good trainer can result in the game being played in a different and altogether new way.. this is not STEALING its UNLOCKING!!!
MAKING TRAINERS = CREATIVITY
TAKING CODE FROM OTHERS TRAINERS = STEALING
doesnt get any simpler really.
(btw, my flipant use of the word CRACK there in no way demeans or belittles the work involved in making them, creating a crack takes a lot more work and in many instances a much DEEPER knowledge than it takes to make most trainers.)
(of course this idiology is taken to its extreme) most trainers are piles of shit that just enable people with no skill to complete a game they enjoy playing.. which is why its laughable when you see people like kelsat deliberatly stealing code from people who do NOT steal anything themselves..
so now we come to WHO should create and uphold these level playing fields? normally its down to the honor of the individual that partakes in the scene in question.. but when this cannot be relied upon, ie.. when you get fucking lamers like kelsat and others, who have no shame and even less skill then i beleive its down to sites like GCW to stand up and govern the flow of traffic they are resposible for.. in the old days groups were dropped form sites all the time because of lame conduct.. this was enough to ensure a good steady scene with quality releases.. today there is no real scene to speak of.. but what we do have is a circle of well known public sites that need to take on a few of the roles of yesteryear scenes so that we can be assured of a good quality stream of site content and disallowing lamers to pollute this.
hye dab.. ltns.. thought i better say hello :)
erm.. just so people know.. my opinion of CH is pretty well known by now.. but my moral compass as a trainer maker wont allow a good trainer maker to be dragged through the mud.. in the last 5 years i would say there has been only 2 people that have either surprised or impressed me with their work on trainers.. and beleive me.. (with me being such a fucking ego maniac its hard to impress me) but none the less.. caliber from CH is not only a fucking nice guy.. he has done work on trainers that i would have written off pretty much everyone for.. i know this, because ive done the work involved in making the same trainers.. and when ive looked at his work he displays a full knoweldge of whats going on.. id LOVE!! to accuse him of stealing my work.. but the raw truth is.. he has rlsed many trainers with extremely difficult options before me and many others in the scene.. so its clear that this guy is the real deal.. infact i would say hes probably the most underated trainer maker in the last 10 years.. if he rlsed his trainers for free and CH didnt exist.. u would all be giving this guy the respect he deserves.. so in future.. dont pay attention to the red tape of HOW his work is released.. just look AT!!! his work.. credit the guy for fuck sake.. hes earned it..
so.. thats about it.. fuck off if u think spelling mistakes is a sign of intellect or education.. i could easily spell check the lot and still have u think im a clever bastard.. truth is i dont care enuff about any of u to worry what u think.. and only the truly elite feel that way :) hehehe.. just kiddin.. cant be arsed to spell check too tired.. too old.. too.. everything really..
end of the day.. if sites like GCW want to be respected by the people that feed them.. they need to at least pay attention and listen to that SOURCE.. and fucking trainer maker doesnt need a theif to produce work.. a theif DOES need a trainer maker.. i know who i would rather be backing.
eze guys.. laters.
Well said Sheep and hey yourself :)
I can understand a quality over quantity approach, but when a trainer is of a relatively similar quality of another one that would require people to pay, I don't see why hosting the free one should be considered bad practise.
Like caliber has said, if he didnt do trainers for CH what trainers would Kelsat be doing.
Exactly.. Most people dont get this idea. And they have been using warez that much they think everything is free.
So Caliber spends hours and hours on coding for a trainer, why not get paid for it, you get paid for doing your real life work right? You Do? If so let me know your boss's name and company and address and your name, then ill let him know you will be doing work for free but ill be paid instead....
Didnt think you would like that idea, but that is basically what Kelsat does.
jeremy_mccurdy
30-03-2009, 08:37
you get paid for doing your real life work right? You Do? If so let me know your boss's name and company and address and your name, then ill let him know you will be doing work for free but ill be paid instead....
Didnt think you would like that idea, but that is basically what Kelsat does.
I agree with most of what everyone here is saying aside from this little analogy. Kelsat isn't making money from his stealing code. It would be more like me working for possibly slightly less money than before, while you take some of the credit for that work.
Anyway, yeah I know that without Caliber's/CH's work, those who leech off them wouldn't have all the preliminary work done for them already, and probably wouldn't end up making trainers at all. I guess it just rubs me the wrong way that quality trainers were released gratis for years before CH came around, but that's just a personal opinion, and I can't really deny the quality of a CH fully featured trainer, or the fact that CH covers a ton of games.
That was upto the trainer maker to release for free. It was not a rule that all trainers will be released for free.
For all great trainer makers its a challenge for some, finding options etc. If they choose to give their hours worth of work for free then good, if not then good. What kelsat does is neither a challenge or even that good, the analogy is actually correct.
For caliber it is, he is working to make money he is getting paid a wage, and someone else is taking the work he did and giving it out free, that in turn may ruin his position, his enthusiasm to stay in that position.
Joe Forster/STA
30-03-2009, 14:38
So, what's the verdict on this one? Has Empire looked at it? Will GCW continue to support stolen trainers?
We don't know: Empire hasn't replied to my question yet. (Toldya he's extremely busy!)
[...] By the way, such code theft happens on larger scales, too. Many serious companies have been caught using GPL-licensed material in their own, proprietary, non-GPL-licensed work. Unfortunately for the original authors, judges don't know shit about GPL and serious companies have serious lawyers to defend them so the outcome of such cases is not obvious. I hope that, in contrast, our one-man judge and executor will come upon a satisfying sentence. ;)
Hmm.
If I am not mistaken, the CH content that appears on GCW are the 1 MB large "PROMO" trainers with +1 option? Hardly a loss if you ask me.
Still, /wave to Chris and the others at CH and wish you stuck around on Avault :)
That said, stealing code and promoting it as your own is lame and should obviously be shunned. Selling it is even worse.
Having said that, I dont see what the big deal is - and dont see why you cant opensource your trainers so more people can learn the fun of making trainers and see how the pros are doing it.
/cheers
Hmm.
If I am not mistaken, the CH content that appears on GCW are the 1 MB large "PROMO" trainers with +1 option? Hardly a loss if you ask me.
Still, /wave to Chris and the others at CH and wish you stuck around on Avault :)
That said, stealing code and promoting it as your own is lame and should obviously be shunned. Selling it is even worse.
Having said that, I dont see what the big deal is - and dont see why you cant opensource your trainers so more people can learn the fun of making trainers and see how the pros are doing it.
/cheers
Because he wants to run a business!
I have done ASM tuts which are in the coders section of this forum for a few years now, and some people have learned from it and grew from it. Others realise they are either..
1. too dumb
2. no patience
3. cannot grasp the basics of ASM
So they give up.
So for CH to release open source is not beneficial to anyone who doesnt want to learn, infact that statement is kind of silly.
Just because you disagree with something does not make the statement silly.
It all depends on the quality of the tutorial and what skill level the reader has beforehand. I still believe that a reader who has access to both tutorials and a rich environment of source code will be able to more easily discover implementations and methods of doing trainers.
Have not read any tutorials on this forum, but from other forums I would say that some of them have been somewhat lacking for me to get a clear understanding of them... or written "hastily" so they are only usefull to a very limited number of people who have the patience to read Ghetto-speak or are already familiar with the material being discussed.
I am sure CH would still make money even if they opensourced their trainers. As they are the biggest and most organized cheat site on the internets, and most people will not code a trainer even if they are given the source. The only risk that could happen is that people who copy trainers and present them as their own work would have an easier job at it. But giving them the full source would perhaps give them enough information so they would be able to make their own trainers, or interest them in such.
Additionally, from other 'scenes' the objective has always to be FIRST (and sometimes with QUALITY). If someone copies a low option trainer and release it much later, what loss is there in terms of creds..
I'd think that anyone who is a user here are not downloading trainers from CH (because of the membership stuff) and CH users hardly visit GCW because it is part of another 'internet' (i.e. the non subscription based one...)
sorry, cheat happens making their source code open source would be pointless.. simply for the factors dab mentioned.. most people read tutorials, think they can do everything and fall flat on their faces... laziness factor...
now, if you want to learn how to code trainers ,go do some research on asm code, win32 api and search the net, then play with your own code, if you've got problems then ask but by no means expect to be spoonfed...
Have not read any tutorials on this forum, but from other forums I would say that some of them have been somewhat lacking for me to get a clear understanding of them... or written "hastily" so they are only usefull to a very limited number of people who have the patience to read Ghetto-speak or are already familiar with the material being discussed.
your ignorance really has no boundaries does it...
Just because you disagree with something does not make the statement silly.
It all depends on the quality of the tutorial and what skill level the reader has beforehand. I still believe that a reader who has access to both tutorials and a rich environment of source code will be able to more easily discover implementations and methods of doing trainers.
Have not read any tutorials on this forum, but from other forums I would say that some of them have been somewhat lacking for me to get a clear understanding of them... or written "hastily" so they are only usefull to a very limited number of people who have the patience to read Ghetto-speak or are already familiar with the material being discussed.
I am sure CH would still make money even if they opensourced their trainers. As they are the biggest and most organized cheat site on the internets, and most people will not code a trainer even if they are given the source. The only risk that could happen is that people who copy trainers and present them as their own work would have an easier job at it. But giving them the full source would perhaps give them enough information so they would be able to make their own trainers, or interest them in such.
Additionally, from other 'scenes' the objective has always to be FIRST (and sometimes with QUALITY). If someone copies a low option trainer and release it much later, what loss is there in terms of creds..
I'd think that anyone who is a user here are not downloading trainers from CH (because of the membership stuff) and CH users hardly visit GCW because it is part of another 'internet' (i.e. the non subscription based one...)
I just have to say a big NO to that.
If you cant follow some tutorials out there then you would never understand period.
It also depends of course on the level of the tutorial, only knowing a smattering (basic knowledge) of ASM and jumping into something like injecting your own DLL's etc then it will go way over your head.
Looking at source code will not help you understand the ideas or knowledge behind what your looking at, only how in lamens terms that particular source will work, so in a way your only learning in the region of 5-10% of what you should know to fully understand.
I can tell you GCW is talked alot at CH, people sending people here to get cracks for games and so forth, so im assuming quite a handful of CH paid customers actually may come here, perhaps not to the forum but to GCW anyway.
Anyways, In short, if you wanna learn what there is to learn, then Learn it dont as TippeX said be spoonfed the information as that will not learn you anything.
Joe Forster/STA
31-03-2009, 09:21
Just because you disagree with something does not make the statement silly.
Agreed. However, it's up to the author to decide under what license his or her software is released. As I wrote already, I'm also for free software, therefore my upcoming GNU-style utilities will also be released along with full source: I've had lots of struggles and lots of fun creating them and now I'm giving them back to the global community that I gleaned examples from. I have a job and I don't need to make money from my hobby programs. But, again, this was my choice.
I am sure CH would still make money even if they opensourced their trainers.
Also agreed. Free (as in "free beer") software is orthogonal to free (as in "free speech", aka open-source) software. Most users know shit about coding, they might not even be able to compile the published source.
Have not read any tutorials on this forum, but from other forums I would say that some of them have been somewhat lacking for me to get a clear understanding of them... or written "hastily" so they are only usefull to a very limited number of people who have the patience to read Ghetto-speak or are already familiar with the material being discussed.
Many programmers hate to write documentation or even comment their source, with the attitude "if you don't understand it yourself, you're no worth of making use of it anyway". This is, actually, sad as there are lots of people whose lack of talent is contrasted by a strong will to learn. Help them and they will also become good programmers - although not as flexible as truly talented ones -: you know, the "work horses" working under the supervision of someone with greater knowledge and freeing this boss of theirs from having to do simple jobs, ones that are "below" his talent. There's definitely a need for such people, too!
What Joe says is true, but Joe forgets we are talking about trainers and not applications :)
to the person who wrote:
"If I am not mistaken, the CH content that appears on GCW are the 1 MB large "PROMO" trainers with +1 option? Hardly a loss if you ask me. "
You don't get it. it's not the Promos, it's the FULL TRAINERS once they are released to the public for free several weeks after the members get them first. The Promos worked as a way for users who might want the trainer early to sign up with us OR they can see what the FULL TRAINER will have when it's free in several weeks-
We posted like 40 or 50 FULL WORKING trainers a month here, not just the Promos, LOL-
best,
Cal
To make things clear: I am totally against people taking/stealing code (any kind) from other people. Files from people using stolen code will not be posted @ GCW
Until now I NEVER received ANY concrete proof from the people claiming that KelSat (and h4x0r for that matter) are/were "stealing" code from any available trainers. Just making accusations that someone is doing anything is NO PROOF AT ALL for me! Therefor the files from KelSat were posted (until now that is)
I have been contacted by 2 persons last November who were claiming that KelSat was "stealing" their code, but my first impression was that at least one of them was "protecting" his own interest (obviously, nothing wrong with it, if you are thinking commercially)
I have asked KelSat directly if he was taking code from any available trainer (including the CH ones) and he was quite convincing in telling me that he was not doing so. Who to believe. I know better now...
As for h4x0r, this is the first time that I am reading that he is also taking code from existing trainers but again no proof...
Here are the email communications:
================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 10-11-2008
From: Chris/CH
================================================== ==================================================
http://forum.cheatengine.org/viewtopic.php?t=312605
Some others that also realize KelSat is ripping off people’s trainers and submitting them as his own. ************* and a couple others have agreed to stop hosting his work. I wish you would consider the same.
================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 13-11-2008
To: Chris/CH
================================================== ==================================================
My first reaction was to leave it be as I did not think KelSat was doing this but now Psych email me with the same thing
I have confronted KelSat with the accusations and have received a few emails from him in which he states that he has never taken code from the CH trainers
The way he is writing I tend to believe him
Most likely you are seeing similar options on both your trainers but I doubt they use the same code!
So is it possible we are accusing someone over something that is not true?
Anyway if he is lying then he is good at it and I think he won't try it again...
But keep in mind that reverse-engineering code is not illegal, I do not know if actual code was used or just the options. If it is true it is an ethical issue
And getting ripped off is a fact of live, I have to live with rippers like ************* who was a mirror site of GCW until he decided to duplicate my work (file, html: colors, table-setup, even the font he is using is the same as mine...)
I have accepted this and do not ask others not to upload their files to him... or should I ?!? It's the same thing...
================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 13-11-2008
From: Psych
================================================== ==================================================
To whom it may concern, regarding gametrainers uploads.
Recently there has been several incidents of 'ripped' work, specifically
certain individuals taking it upon themselves to copy other
peoples' work and release it as their own. At present this issue, to my
knowledge, has only affected the work of CheatHappens.com, and I believe
they have already contacted you themselves about this issue.
However, we have reason to believe that it is not only their work which is
being affected, and its only a matter of time before we find out what other
work is being targetted. I can fully appreciate that it is impossible for
you to know this is going on, and you are only uploading submissions.
We can make a start however at preventing these incidents,
with your cooperation. The one individual we know about goes by the
name of 'Kelsat'. His releases always follow up to other major releases by
cheathappens within a day or so of them becoming available. We have both
analysed these trainers in detail and find them to be almost exact copies
of the work.
For now, it would be greatly appreciated if you could
remove all current submissions of Kelsat and prevent any
further additions from him. He is a ripper. Suppose these weren't just game
trainers that poke to memory, suppose they were software utilites.
Freeware or paid software it makes no different, its all the same principle. I
certainly wouldn't want to see these sorts of individuals get away with
this if they directed their attention to my own work. I can completely
understand the current predicament of cheathappens, and I concur with their
suggestion of contacting yourselves to request this.
Thanks for your time. Any consideration much appreciated!
================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 13-11-2008
To: Psych
================================================== ==================================================
I have received a few emails from KelSat in which he states that he has never taken code from the CH trainers
The way he is writing I tend to believe him
Most likely Chris is seeing similar options on both their trainers but I doubt they use the same code!
So is it possible we are accusing someone over something that is not true?
Anyway if he is lying then he is good at it ;) and I think he won't try it again...
================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 13-11-2008
From: Chris/CH
================================================== ==================================================
Ripped us again. Option for option down the exact byte. Not sure why you continue to take his side.
================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 14-11-2008
From: KelSat
================================================== ==================================================
I don't want the enemy. I just want to share my trainer with my skill.
Thought my skill of making trainer is not well, I can swear to god that I can make it by myself.
Like this Tomb Raider Trainer.
Why do I must copy code from CH if I have the ability?
================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 14-11-2008
From: KelSat
================================================== ==================================================
I can swear to god I don't copy the code from their trainer.
It's all my trainer By myself.
You can see the trainer of Tomb_Raider_Underworld_V1.0_Demo_Plus_9_Trainer_By _KelSat
and see this web site http://www.cheathappens.com/show_blank.asp?titleID=13858
there is no trainer of this game in CH.
This can prove I can make the trainer by myself.
Maybe they think my trainer is cutting their client and income.
================================================== ==================================================
Sent: 14-11-2008
From: KelSat
================================================== ==================================================
Ok, let's see another trainer from
Dead Space - Mega Trainer (U.S./English)
Features: Unlimited Hull Integrity, No Turret Overheating, Unlimited Oxygen, Unlimited Health, Unlimited Ammo, Duplicate Inventory, Add Credits, Add Upgrade Nodes, Unlimited Stasis, Save/Load Position (Teleport).
and My Trainer:
Dead Space V1.0 Plus 10 Trainer By KelSat
Shift+G - Unlimited Life
Shift+H - Unlimited Ammo
Shift+T - Unlimited Stasis
Shift+Y - Unlimited Credits
Shift+N - Unlimited Nodes
Shift+V - Unlimited Items
Shift+K - One Hit Kill
Shift+O - Save Position
Shift+P - Teleport
Shift+U - Undo Teleport
Why do I have only copied some functions from ch if i copy the trainer?
and where is the function "one hit kill" in trainer of ch?
================================================== ==================================================
As you can read they are just ACCUSATIONS and nothing more, no proof nothing...
Also some people think there is some exclusivity in the files posted @ GCW, I can tell you THERE IS NONE, all kinds of trainers will be posted I do not really care if it is professionally done or done my an amateur, even a +1 PROMO Trainer is a trainer for me! It has also nothing to do with quality over quantity as everything is posted... If a trainer works then great if it does not then so be it and try another trainer.
If people are thinking that a boycott (or any other crap) will make me think differently than think again, IT WILL NOT (don't make me laugh)
The only thing that will make me think differently is providing PROOF someone is stealing code
People like KelSat will always exist, if he stops releasing his trainer thru his own website then someone else will be doing so. IT IS A FACT OF LIFE, learn to live with it!
For now KelSat's trainers will not be posted anymore as he lied to me about stealing the code
@PWizard: Maybe i did not make it clear in my reply, the information in this thread has convinced me that KelSat is ripping code and I wanted to make it clear that UNTIL this tread nothing concrete was ever given
For now KelSat's trainers will not be posted as he lied to me about stealing the code
Jacardis
01-04-2009, 09:03
OMG .. this ridiculous, bickering about code . im new here in forum , but i have been using gamecopyworld for longest im 35 years old and all you acting like bunch crying brats .
empire all respect to you and this place but my friend must say if you don't allow kelsat trainers to be posted then you might as well shut down all trainer section or shut down site . because all you doing is allowing cheatheaven to monopolize all game trainers . no longer will be no free trainers . in order to enjoy a game to fullist you got pay for a trainer... eh? missing something here .. already spend anywhere from 25 to 40 dollars on the game but then if i wanted a little more power i would have to go pay some website for a game trainer no not my style .
claims and accusation are all thats happening here . if you want to stop his trainers from being posted here im sure this will be a set back for all . not to mention from what i seen 90 % of the trainers posted are complements of kelsat and few others who SEEK NO PROFIT in doing what they do, unlike ch.
sorry but after reading all this i must say this topic should have been locked before it got any futher past page 1.
Jacardis
01-04-2009, 09:14
i have been to your site and was disapointed i been looking for a trainer that coincided with a game im very fond of stormrise. but when i saw you had one with limted option and had to purchase a full membership just to get it . that turned me off from your site, sorry.
I know that posting CH PROMO's could be seen as supporting CH but as I told before ANY kind of trainer is a trainer for me, even a +1 option
I understand that CH is making money of trainers but they also have to pay the bills (hosting, people, etc). Their model is asking money for software, what is so strange about that! Just because trainers were free does not mean that they are wrong asking for money now.
You can disagree about this but if someone puts time into this (for some options it took al lot) why not ask something in return?
Jacardis
01-04-2009, 09:28
so whats wrong with people remaking free trainers? then if there is nothing wrong with making profit off trainers?
Joe Forster/STA
01-04-2009, 09:38
I couldn't say I got any wiser in this matter, even after the last few posts... TippeX, would you compare a pair of suspiciously identical trainers, please?
so whats wrong with people remaking free trainers?
Remaking is fine, rereleasing is not.
simple, 99.9% of them all use WriteProcessMemory to patch in the trainer code...
so we could have a tool (i guess i could make it if needed) which 'caught' the api call, and outputed what it would write, the size, and the location
we do this on both trainers, and analyse the code that would be injected...
we then compare it (taking rva's into account) and look for similar or identical byte patterns, which gives us a very early indication to the uniqueness of them (or otherwise)
apache-yesitisme
01-04-2009, 10:43
well well. here we are :)
My humble opinion is that i cant effing stand people who steal options ..i have had it happen to me in the past (yes..you know who you are) but what can you do?..indeed i have had fuckwits even accuse moi of ripping options..now come on anyone with half a head and a loaf of bread and who really knows me, knows i dont have to steal anyones options
i agree with the majority here that trainers should not have their files hosted until it can be safely proven its their own work but on the other hand just because cali and chris release a trainer with 5 options and the same day somebody else releases a trainer with equal options, why should it be labeled a ch rip? and as for some code areas ..come on we are all a little lazy and if 1 area of code does the job why go looking for a rare areas and especially concerning the ammo etc
i wont defend a trainer ripper ever, but why should one website dictate another?
it almost reads like cheathappens are saying that gcw would actually be hurt (hits wise, financially?) if cheathappens stops sending the 'promo' trainers or full after their release date, but what would stop anyone harvesting them (once ch has sent them to any other website)? as for 'promo'trainers, well they benefit the maker more than the host, i know this because i was the first(probably) person to make 'promo' trainers, a little respect for trainer makers goes a long way and lets hope that cheathappens screaming thief everytime a trainer is == to one of theirs won't put off the fledgling makers out there.
have they got the right to scream when somebody clones a trainer made by them?, if they can 100% prove it , then they sure have
but dictating what other site owners can do with their own site is over the top even if i do agree with banning kelsat's trainers for ripping
Now as for paying trainers..hmmm iam all for it!! and why not? i used to have this arguement with probably the same arseholes about the same reasons.
anyone who is anyone knows some pretty long hours go into making a trainer and even more into making a great trainer so why not expect reward for it whether its simply recognition or payment
plus it makes the competition stiffer and ecourages the free trainer makers to go beyond the norm and 'man-up' their own work so its a win -win situation for the enduser
OMG .. this ridiculous, bickering about code . im new here in forum , but i have been using gamecopyworld for longest im 35 years old and all you acting like bunch crying brats .
empire all respect to you and this place but my friend must say if you don't allow kelsat trainers to be posted then you might as well shut down all trainer section or shut down site . because all you doing is allowing cheatheaven to monopolize all game trainers . no longer will be no free trainers . in order to enjoy a game to fullist you got pay for a trainer... eh? missing something here .. already spend anywhere from 25 to 40 dollars on the game but then if i wanted a little more power i would have to go pay some website for a game trainer no not my style .
claims and accusation are all thats happening here . if you want to stop his trainers from being posted here im sure this will be a set back for all . not to mention from what i seen 90 % of the trainers posted are complements of kelsat and few others who SEEK NO PROFIT in doing what they do, unlike ch.
sorry but after reading all this i must say this topic should have been locked before it got any futher past page 1.
Luckily your not a mod, im 35 and calling me a crying brat without looking at what I know or have done makes you look stupid.
And what your brattish mind cant comprehend is Trainers take time to make, finding coding to manipulate can be quick but normally it takes a long time.
So like ive said before if Caliber wants to work for a bit of money when he is writing numerous trainers a week or updating trainers for new game updates, then that is his choice. Not yours.
This world doesnt revolve around people like yourself who think they deserve free trainers every bloody day, you probably dont even buy your games either. So instead of coming in here blowing your big horn because the possibility that you wont get all those free trainers you desire will slowly dwindle, go and get a life or something.
I cant be bothered talking to you anymore infact.
well well. here we are :)
My humble opinion is that i cant effing stand people who steal options ..i have had it happen to me in the past (yes..you know who you are) but what can you do?..indeed i have had fuckwits even accuse moi of ripping options..now come on anyone with half a head and a loaf of bread and who really knows me, knows i dont have to steal anyones options
i agree with the majority here that trainers should not have their files hosted until it can be safely proven its their own work but on the other hand just because cali and chris release a trainer with 5 options and the same day somebody else releases a trainer with equal options, why should it be labeled a ch rip? and as for some code areas ..come on we are all a little lazy and if 1 area of code does the job why go looking for a rare areas and especially concerning the ammo etc
i wont defend a trainer ripper ever, but why should one website dictate another?
it almost reads like cheathappens are saying that gcw would actually be hurt (hits wise, financially?) if cheathappens stops sending the 'promo' trainers or full after their release date, but what would stop anyone harvesting them (once ch has sent them to any other website)? as for 'promo'trainers, well they benefit the maker more than the host, i know this because i was the first(probably) person to make 'promo' trainers, a little respect for trainer makers goes a long way and lets hope that cheathappens screaming thief everytime a trainer is == to one of theirs won't put off the fledgling makers out there.
have they got the right to scream when somebody clones a trainer made by them?, if they can 100% prove it , then they sure have
but dictating what other site owners can do with their own site is over the top even if i do agree with banning kelsat's trainers for ripping
Now as for paying trainers..hmmm iam all for it!! and why not? i used to have this arguement with probably the same arseholes about the same reasons.
anyone who is anyone knows some pretty long hours go into making a trainer and even more into making a great trainer so why not expect reward for it whether its simply recognition or payment
plus it makes the competition stiffer and ecourages the free trainer makers to go beyond the norm and 'man-up' their own work so its a win -win situation for the enduser
Hey patchster :)
I think I found your Enter button :P heheeh nahh im joking, I know your more than capable, and I agree this could have been handled better.
I agree perhaps nop'ing out a sub or add op same as both trainers should not be suspicious, but kelsat has used options with flaws in the coding that were deliberate and he copied the whole damn code.
I say we blame Sunbeam and his "How to update trainers" tutorial from a few years back, perhaps if tuts like that were not around maybe some of these numbnuts wouldnt know what they could do with olly.
apache-yesitisme
01-04-2009, 11:56
heya Dabs :) patchster..havent been called that for a long time ..ahh the good old days lmfao
Knowledge is power , so they say. but i think hindsight is a greater force
Jacardis
01-04-2009, 12:40
DABhand it's good thing your not mod either. because now i can just ignore your post regarding me as irrelevant trash post. all these post resolve around people expressing there opinions so i figure i express my own. this reason why i don't go to forum much anymore because there always some ass who thinks just because he got some dam high post count he can trash new members
Joe Forster/STA
01-04-2009, 13:33
And you're both lucky I'm a patient mod... ;) Seriously, stop it and concentrate on making up constructive ideas to solve the problem described in this thread instead.
DABhand it's good thing your not mod either. because now i can just ignore your post regarding me as irrelevant trash post. all these post resolve around people expressing there opinions so i figure i express my own. this reason why i don't go to forum much anymore because there always some ass who thinks just because he got some dam high post count he can trash new members
I know what Joe said... But look at it this way, your the one who came flaunting in and declared everyone "crying brats" now you had a taste of your own medicine your gonna cry.
Jeez louise, yes this thread is defo not for you :P
Yes expressing your opinion is good, but you dont know how to do that and think attacking others is expressing your opinion, guess what it doesnt lol
i have been to your site and was disapointed i been looking for a trainer that coincided with a game im very fond of stormrise. but when i saw you had one with limted option and had to purchase a full membership just to get it . that turned me off from your site, sorry.
we didn't make a promo for stormrise because we could only create TWO options for this game. those 'limited' options took me the best of 8 hours to create.
FIRST- this game is DX-10 ONLY, which limits the OS that a trainer maker has to have to be able to just RUN the game.
SECOND - the fact that it is VISTA also affects the TOOLS we can use and this game crashes when breakpointed with a debugger (even with PLUGS)
THIRD - this game uses LUA scripting to perform all of it's decision making and variable updating. What does this mean? This means that ALL variables and data are routed through TWO code locations ONLY. THOUSANDS of variables run through these code sections every couple milliseconds. Divining out the HEALTH or POWER or whatever of the PLAYER ONLY vs. the thousands of other variables running through that code section is a nightmare. If you've never made a trainer then you HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.
why am i going into all of this? basically you won't see any other trainers other than OURS for this game, because nobody is going to screw with this game for 8 hours, dealing with crashes and dead ends over and over trying to make options for a VISTA only game. i don't often try to boost myself like this, but this trainer is a F'ing accomplishment. we have way too much other work for me to try and put 8 to 12 more hours into this mildly popular game just so i can *maybe* find a way to do more options.
Those two options are quite powerful, by the way, and took alot of creative thinking, skill, and home-made tools I programmed myself to accomplish.
So i take exception to you putting down our 'limited' trainer and I will go out on a limb and say that I doubt we see any other trainers for that game (unless someone looks at my code and tries to copy it). There's good reasons why some trainers have limited options. That doesn't mean they didn't take skill and alot of work to create them-
good luck finding another trainer for that game. By the way, a subscription to our site enables you to download ALL the members only trainers, but you know that already...
best,
Cal
Joe Forster/STA
01-04-2009, 19:02
i have been to your site and was disapointed i been looking for a trainer that coincided with a game im very fond of stormrise. but when i saw you had one with limted option and had to purchase a full membership just to get it . that turned me off from your site, sorry.
You don't pay for this or that trainer; you pay the creators for coding stuff all the time and then get all trainers for free. See how different it is from another point of view? ;)
Yeah, my grandma - if she was still living - might have wanted whatever operating system and applications only to read/write simple documents and E-mails and surf the Web. For that purpose, Windows and M$ Office would be way too expensive. However, if she had bought them for the heck of it, she might have found out that they offer a lot more than she had thought of. So they may turn out to be a good purchase, after all.
apache-yesitisme
02-04-2009, 02:52
I will go out on a limb and say that I doubt we see any other trainers for that game (unless someone looks at my code and tries to copy it).
best,
Cal
OMFG! :rolleyes: what are you like lol , your way too paranoid
anyway was not the end means of this thread to seek a resolve for cheathappens problem of people allegedly ripping certain trainers? how about requiring members legit home address and isp base? dna fingerprints and first born child as collateral or not releasing ANY full trainers to the public domain then i guess u have some kind of software legal protection??? or maybe more legal clout but then again proving somebody is stealing code would be difficult i guess
besides from what i have read on here(this thread) caliber, ch is doing better then ever? so is this 'stealing' really damaging your site? or is this and other similar thread giving cheathappens.com unprecedented free publicity
Now chris iam not deflaming cheathappens btw :) i have actually been in the same dilemma and i couldnt think of a solution
Joe Forster/STA
02-04-2009, 07:55
Hmmm, fingerprints are well possible in a software...
If you have a strong secondary PC and lots of space on your web server, you could create user-specific versions of all downloads. In a very simplified version, you hide a redundant "MOV EAX, user_id" in a well-defined place of the code - I mean, 1) assemble "MOV EAX, 0" into the common version, 2) patch into it the user_id for each user-specific version and 3) compress/encrypt only afterwards. If your web server is strong and you don't have that many downloads, it could be done on-the-fly by the web server instead.
Then, if you see your code being ripped off and that code contains the hidden fingerprint, you'll be able to find out which user on your site stole it (or leaked it to the thief). This assumes, of course, that A) the thief is not smart enough to find the fingerprint and/or B) the ripped off code is sophisticated enough for such a fingerprint to stay well hidden in it (it does not become obvious that that particular instruction is not needed for the functionality) and C) the thief does not have access to two (or more) user-specific versions that - after decompression and decrypting - only differ in the fingerprint.
Wanna attend a polymorphic virus coding course? :p
[...] Or another simple example, taken from SecuROM. Whenever using constants, use "MOV EAX, (value XOR user_id XOR random_value); XOR EAX, (user_id XOR random_value)" instead of a plain "MOV EAX, value". Because of the randomness of the actual values, the user_id won't be seen anywhere "naked" but you, the author knowing the random_value for at least one such tricky assignment, can easily find out. Yes, this can be unwinded, but, when sophisticated enough, only with lots of struggles and "visual debugging" (watch the code in a disassembler and find out in your head what it does) becomes extremely annoying, too.
i just see:
- another nice PR action from shithappens.
kelsat maybe rip trainer options, that suxx true. But he had some(really rare) good moments too. see his hawx trainer.
i dont like that they (CH) claim be a seriuos business, but on the same breath they spread their promo trainers on webpages which hold , in most countries in the world, 'illegal' content (g_bw,gcw etc.).
if gcw ban kelsat trainer then they should ban the promo trainers too. nothing against the full trainer from shithappens, i think is promo enuff.
i love gcw coz they hold quality stuff, and not crippled things!
Best Regards
Self.fish
That whole post you made needs a slap into reality.
And its like a 12 year old on his mobile wrote the whole thing.
But the Best Regards kinda makes it easier to figure out who wrote it :P
the point of this thread was to describe an intolerable situation where a site that we partner with is hosting content that uses stolen code locations / solutions from our work at CH. we were giving a head's up as to why we choose not to partner with GCW any longer due to this situation. it's not really a problem for us so much as it is a problem for GCW who is chosing to host content that has been ripped from our trainers, which in turn we cannot support them by sending more of our trainers (not just the PROMOS, people!) for them to post here. so they can now host the few kelsat, unsupported WAREZ trainer versions (which are mostly copies of our CH trainers) instead of our 40 or more trainers that we sent here each month (not uncluding the PROMOS). it's that simple-
Chalirum
03-04-2009, 23:15
Good job admins, you can bend all the way, now there is no reason to get trainers from GCW, just go to CH and skip the middleman.
BTW Youtube, google, myspace and a gazzilion other pages all are free, all have tons of people working day and night on them. CH is pathetic.
You are pathetic. You just got your panties in a bunch because the guy uploads and offers his trainers for free. Cheathappens.com is nothing but a ripoff. You people use illegally downloaded games to make your trainers.
You have already several trainers out for games that aren't even out yet. You are a bunch of hypocrites! The Godfather 2 isn't even out yet but somehow you managed to release a trainer for the full game. Keep your piss poor excuses to yourself. Anybody gullible enough to pay a subscription to a bunch of pirating pricks is a fucking moron. I have reported you to EA and their affiliates for modifying their games files and charging for it.
It just a matter of time till you get shut down.
Chalirum
04-04-2009, 02:14
Ch says: "We've been in this industry for over 60 years so we've had quite a bit of time to build relationships. We get games for free weeks before the premiere, because EA loves us." or smth along those lines.
That's a weird excuse since magically their trainer works with the scene's crack.
well if they do make such a statement then its quite easy to find out.. because there is something interesting about the godfather 2 release....
You are pathetic. You just got your panties in a bunch because the guy uploads and offers his trainers for free. Cheathappens.com is nothing but a ripoff. You people use illegally downloaded games to make your trainers.
You have already several trainers out for games that even out yet. You are a bunch of hypocrites! The Godfather 2 isn't even out yet but somehow you managed to release a trainer for the full game. Keep your piss poor excuses to yourself. Anybody gullible enough to pay a subscription to a bunch of pirating pricks is a fucking moron. I have reported you to EA and their affiliates modifying their games files and charging for it.
It just a matter of time till you get shut down.
Wow what an Idiot, do you charge your boss for working?
Yes welcome to real life.
If Caliber sits for hours and hours searching the coding of a game to bring people options to make a quality trainer and if he wants to work for someone who gives them out to paying customers, be it a yearly or lifetime subscription to access as many trainers as they want (during the year if yearly), and updated trainers for updated games, then so be it. Just like its your choice to volunteer your work to someone or make them pay for it. So who is the hypocrit now.
And mouthing off obscenities doesnt make you stronger or clever, it makes you look well less of a person. Its not illegal to make trainers and/or sell your own, so I think you should read up more on that side of the law as you have been reading the propaganda on gamefaqs again havent we, were the masses of warez users amass and complain and cry that quality trainers are not free of which they are all used to.
But if your going to complain and whine and swear, join the queue at gamefaqs im sure they will be happy to have you there.
As Pwiz said, thats how GF2 got out early as someone who works for a magazine etc leaked it.
I don't think anything else positive will come from leaving this thread open and would like to request that it be closed.
No! I want to slap the broadband kiddies some more :\
Chalirum
04-04-2009, 06:15
Wow, triple post, how mature, you must be the king of the internets!
Why can't ch earn money from ads like everyone else on the internet?
Wow, triple post, how mature, you must be the king of the internets!
Why can't ch earn money from ads like everyone else on the internet?
Now this might be difficult for you to comprehend, but it was 3 seperate posts and not 1, all 3 are different responses.
Talking about mature, have you seen yourself lately go read what you wrote previously.
Chalirum
04-04-2009, 06:27
LMAO! You guys are obviously on a "ch is the bestest thing in the world" train, ignorant and blind behavior.
This is the record of hacking the wheelman.
You can see all routines I've found.
After finish searching all routines, i start to analyse the difference from
these routines and find the ture routine to inject the code (you can also
see some inject codes after routine code).
I don't know whether this is the evidence or not. But this is only the proof
i can give u.
I am just a trainer-maker, not a ripper.
time
004F0D4B F3:0F1087 FC000>movss xmm0, dword ptr [edi+FC]
004F0D63 F30F1187 FC000000 movss dword ptr [edi+FC], xmm0
004F0DC7 F3:0F1087 FC000>movss xmm0, dword ptr [edi+FC]
race time
0054CC3F F3:0F1083 E0020>movss xmm0, dword ptr [ebx+2E0]
0054CC64 F30F1183 E0020000 movss dword ptr [ebx+2E0], xmm0
0043C6A7 F3:0F1085 E0020>movss xmm0, dword ptr [ebp+2E0]
stamina
00506A92 F3:0F5847 64 addss xmm0, dword ptr [edi+64]
00506A97 F3:0F1147 64 movss dword ptr [edi+64], xmm0
00506A9C F3:0F1047 64 movss xmm0, dword ptr [edi+64]
//save esi address,ecx+2AC=life
0001FFB0 /EB 07 jmp short 0001FFB9
0001FFB2 |C747 64 0000C84>mov dword ptr [edi+64], 42C80000
0001FFB9 \EB 0A jmp short 0001FFC5
0001FFBB C781 AC020000 0>mov dword ptr [ecx+2AC], 270F
0001FFC5 F3:0F1047 64 movss xmm0, dword ptr [edi+64]
0001FFCA 890D F0FF0100 mov dword ptr [1FFF0], ecx
0001FFD0 C3 retn
EB 07 C7 47 64 00 00 C8 42 EB 0A C7 81 AC 02 00 00 0F 27 00 00 F3 0F 10 47
64 89 0D F0 FF 01 00C3
00506AC9 F3:0F1147 64 movss dword ptr [edi+64], xmm0
00506B40 F3:0F1047 64 movss xmm0, dword ptr [edi+64]
xyh
00A8C766 0F2800 movaps xmm0, dqword ptr [eax]
00A8CB77 0F2898 D0000000 movaps xmm3, dqword ptr [eax+D0]
//ecx-480= stamina.edi
00FCA0A4 0F2986 D0000000 movaps dqword ptr [esi+D0], xmm0
0102E2A1 0F2800 movaps xmm0, dqword ptr [eax]
00FC33C5 0F2986 D0000000 movaps dqword ptr [esi+D0], xmm0
00F94867 8B50 38 mov edx, dword ptr [eax+38]
00F3F147 0F2843 30 movaps xmm0, dqword ptr [ebx+30]
00FAA335 8B50 38 mov edx, dword ptr [eax+38]
00FCA108 0F2986 D0000000 movaps dqword ptr [esi+D0], xmm0
mov
00FCA0A4 0F2986 D0000000 movaps dqword ptr [esi+D0], xmm0
00FC33C5 0F2986 D0000000 movaps dqword ptr [esi+D0], xmm0
00FCA108 0F2986 D0000000 movaps dqword ptr [esi+D0], xmm0
0102E35C 8B11 mov edx, dword ptr [ecx]
0102EC12 8B01 mov eax, dword ptr [ecx]
life
005E6408 39B7 AC020000 cmp dword ptr [edi+2AC], esi //
0045A136 F3:0F2A86 AC020>cvtsi2ss xmm0, dword ptr [esi+2AC]
0052D689 8B8F AC020000 mov ecx, dword ptr [edi+2AC]
0053D905 8B93 AC020000 mov edx, dword ptr [ebx+2AC]
00AFDBD8 83BB AC020000 00 cmp dword ptr [ebx+2AC], 0 //all guy
0001FFB0 391D F0FF0100 cmp dword ptr [1FFF0], ebx
0001FFB6 74 0C je short 0001FFC4
0001FFB8 EB 0A jmp short 0001FFC4
0001FFBA C783 AC020000 00000000 mov dword ptr [ebx+2AC], 0
0001FFC4 83BB AC020000 00 cmp dword ptr [ebx+2AC], 0
0001FFCB C3 retn
39 1D F0 FF 01 00 74 0C EB 0A C7 83 AC 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 83 BB AC 02 00
00 00 C3
0053DD7A 8B83 AC020000 mov eax, dword ptr [ebx+2AC]
0052196B 83B8 AC020000 0>cmp dword ptr [eax+2AC], 0
005E6408 39B7 AC020000 cmp dword ptr [edi+2AC], esi
car life
004A05CF 398E AC020000 cmp dword ptr [esi+2AC], ecx
004A0F7F 83BE AC020000 0>cmp dword ptr [esi+2AC], 0 //all car
[esp+BC]=ebp+34
00496020 DB81 AC020000 fild dword ptr [ecx+2AC]
004A8F85 83BE AC020000 0>cmp dword ptr [esi+2AC], 0
004A28BD 399F AC020000 cmp dword ptr [edi+2AC], ebx
00A564A5 83BB AC020000 00 cmp dword ptr [ebx+2AC], 0
///
eax=0;
0001FFB0 83F8 00 cmp eax, 0
0001FFB3 75 0E jnz short 0001FFC3
0001FFB5 EB 18 jmp short 0001FFCF
0001FFB7 C783 AC020000 0F270000 mov dword ptr [ebx+2AC], 270F
0001FFC1 EB 0C jmp short 0001FFCF
0001FFC3 EB 0A jmp short 0001FFCF
0001FFC5 C783 AC020000 01000000 mov dword ptr [ebx+2AC], 01
0001FFCF 83BB AC020000 00 cmp dword ptr [ebx+2AC], 0
0001FFD6 C3 retn
83 F8 00 75 0E EB 18 C7 83 AC 02 00 00 0F 27 00 00 EB 0C EB 0A C7 83 AC 02
00 00 0A 00 00 00 83BB AC 02 00 00 00 C3
be damage
0087EA7A 2983 AC020000 sub dword ptr [ebx+2AC], eax onlyme
0048B727 399F AC020000 cmp dword ptr [edi+2AC], ebx
004A05CF 398E AC020000 cmp dword ptr [esi+2AC], ecx
0083014C 3B87 A8020000 cmp eax, dword ptr [edi+2A8]
008300C9 F3:0F1087 8C020>movss xmm0, dword ptr [edi+28C]
00989529 D99F A4020000 fstp dword ptr [edi+2A4]
wanted
005E6433 837B 54 00 cmp dword ptr [ebx+54], 0 ebx+5C float
1.0~5.0 ebx+58=0 no wanted (no wanted first)
005E6517 8B43 54 mov eax, dword ptr [ebx+54]
005E651A 85C0 test eax, eax
0001FFB0 /EB 0E jmp short 0001FFC0
0001FFB2 |C743 5C 0000C040 mov dword ptr [ebx+5C], 40C00000
0001FFB9 |C743 58 05000000 mov dword ptr [ebx+58], 5
0001FFC0 \EB 07 jmp short 0001FFC9
0001FFC2 C743 58 00000000 mov dword ptr [ebx+58], 0
0001FFC9 8B43 54 mov eax, dword ptr [ebx+54]
0001FFCC 85C0 test eax, eax
0001FFCE C3 retn
EB 0E C7 43 5C 00 00 C0 40 C7 43 58 05 00 00 00 EB 07 C7 43 58 00 00 00 00
8B 43 54 85 C0 C3
005E677E 837B 54 00 cmp dword ptr [ebx+54], 0
005E6807 8B43 54 mov eax, dword ptr [ebx+54]
005DE1D1 3970 54 cmp dword ptr [eax+54], esi
boost
00511AB1 F3:0F1040 5C movss xmm0, dword ptr [eax+5C]
0001FFB0 /EB 07 jmp short 0001FFB9
0001FFB2 |C740 5C 00009643 mov dword ptr [eax+5C], 43960000
0001FFB9 \F3:0F1040 5C movss xmm0, dword ptr [eax+5C]
0001FFBE C3 retn
EB 07 C7 40 5C 00 00 96 43 F3 0F 10 40 5C C3
00508714 F3:0F1040 5C movss xmm0, dword ptr [eax+5C]
0045FD99 F3:0F5847 5C addss xmm0, dword ptr [edi+5C]
0045FDC2 F3:0F1147 5C movss dword ptr [edi+5C], xmm0
0045FEA3 F3:0F1047 5C movss xmm0, dword ptr [edi+5C]
amoo
reload
004B8512 3981 F0020000 cmp dword ptr [ecx+2F0], eax
004B8536 8B81 F0020000 mov eax, dword ptr [ecx+2F0]
0001FFB0 /EB 0E jmp short 0001FFC0
0001FFB2 |50 push eax
0001FFB3 |8B81 F8020000 mov eax, dword ptr [ecx+2F8]
0001FFB9 |8981 F0020000 mov dword ptr [ecx+2F0], eax
0001FFBF |58 pop eax
0001FFC0 \EB 0A jmp short 0001FFCC
0001FFC2 C781 F4020000 E7030000 mov dword ptr [ecx+2F4], 3E7
0001FFCC 8B81 F0020000 mov eax, dword ptr [ecx+2F0]
0001FFD2 C3 retn
EB 0E 50 8B 81 F8 02 00 00 89 81 F0 02 00 00 58 EB 0A C7 81 F4 02 00 00 E7
03 00 00 8B 81 F0 0200 00 C3
http://m0004.gamecopyworld.com/games/pc_hawx.shtml
where is the CH trainer?
http://m0004.gamecopyworld.com/games/pc_tomb_raider_underworld.shtml
where is the fist trainer on this page?
obviously i can make my own trainer...
The something about ripping is just a joke.
Unlike you, i have an actual job in software development.
Every half assed VB/C++ coder and their 13 year old mongoloid script kiddie brother can code a trainer. You just can't bare the fact that this guy is making these in his free time and offering them for free of charge like every respectful coder would. Get a real job, you hacks.
so, any software you develop in your job you would offer free of charge, like 'every respectful coder would' ?.. somehow i seriously doubt it...
Unlike you, i have an actual job in software development.
Every half assed VB/C++ coder and their 13 year old mongoloid script kiddie brother can code a trainer. You just can't bare the fact that this guy is making these in his free time and offering them for free of charge like every respectful coder would. Get a real job, you hacks.
If that was to me, my trainers are ASM, get your facts straight next time.
I also own my own PC Shop, which makes a not bad profit yearly.
Software Development huh? As the tea lady?
Nobody has an actual "job" you have a "position" in a software development "environment".
That being said whats an API?
trainer stealing¿?¿? xDDD CH lossers.
Look this picture:
http://i39.tinypic.com/713ecn.jpg
and this:
http://i41.tinypic.com/29okfg8.jpg
oh yes man!!!, this is code stealing, cheathappens lossers, do not accuse anyone without argument, that of paying for a trainer is theft and you do not steal more q if there people who do it because dicersion let them in peace, if they fuck the business ?, NO IS MY PROBLEM, but I do not blame codes to steal anyone because that is completely untrue.
so if you have to remove your trainer is, paying for a trainer ¿?¿?¿?, unscrupulous thieves that is what they are caliber and pwizard.
if it is not much to ask or mention my name, Everyone has the right to do this JA!, not just you, just missing it.
Grettings
Joe Forster/STA
04-04-2009, 15:44
This thread serves no useful purpose anymore, especially with this bashing. :( As requested, the thread is closed now. Sorry to anyone who hasn't had the chance to express his opinion yet.
Joe Forster/STA
09-04-2009, 04:45
TippeX, any substantial proofs yet; have you compared any pairs of "identical" trainers?
no feedback from anyone at all... its like nobody wants the proof to be checked
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