Who created who?

[TylerDurden]

Did god create man or did man create god?


That is my question. I personally will refrain from giving what I actually think for a little while. Please lets also not get out of hand on this subject either. If something about a thread angers you then take a deep breath and count to 10. On the other hand lets not try and aggrivate people here either. Lets keep this a good old fashioned debate.



So, with that being said. "Any thoughts?"


Tyler!

[AXmichigan]

i say god created man
not cuz of that bible nonsense
but simply because ive found that god helps me out when i need him, and even when i dont especially need him

[gh0sth@cker]

In the words of Carl Sagan:

A typical explanation
Q: Where did the Universe come from
A: The Big Bang

Q: What was before the Big Bang, where did it all come from?
A: God created it

Q: Who created God?
A: (S)He was always there

So we need to ask ourselves do we need the extra step of a God? Why couldn't the universe always have been there?

[TylerDurden]

@AXmichigan,
How do you know this? Couldnt it just have been the series of events that were supposed to happen? Like a domino effect?


@Ghost,
Your last questions are very interesting. I ask that to myself everyday.



Now here is a question that I often wonder about myself. Why is it that pretty much every race of human (probably since the beginning of our history) made up idols to worship? Is it in our human nature?




Tyler!

[krondike]

Same question that we can ask our self, witch one came first, the chicken or the egg?

[TylerDurden]

Same question that we can ask our self, witch one came first, the chicken or the egg?


Thats easy, they evolved from dinosaurs.



Tyler!

[AXmichigan]

i say that
because before when i was in the contemplation phase
things really didnt work out
but once i tried the whole prayin thing
it got better
sure it could be a delusion
but its better safe than sorry right?

[TylerDurden]

Ok Im guessin people are gonna get where I stand in my beliefs by now. But I just personally find it hard believe that (what I call) and imaginary being is telling us to do this and not do that.

I live what I think is a fine life. Sometimes I do things that are wrong but I never see myself as being punished by the wrath of god or anything. As a matter of fact I find it hard to believe a god would have people fighting over which god is the real god. Even the 10 commandments I find hard to believe.

Im sorry but believing that an almighty being is real and is always watching sounds pretty much like a fairy tale to me.



Tyler!

[snake2]

Im sorry but believing that an almighty being is real and is always watching sounds pretty much like a fairy tale to me.



Tyler!
of course there is someone always watching you his name is santa :p haven't you ever herd the songs?
LOL

[TylerDurden]

Thats exactly what Im saying. Religion basicaly sounds like a fairy tale or a story thats put out to make children be good.




Tyler!

[crazygamelover]

I believe you should do whats right in your heart and as for the wrath of God, you will have to wait and see for yourself what is true and not true. The bible is like guidelines in the way we live. There are several storys of how things were done in the past to help us make sound decisions on what to do in certain situations or base a decision on right or wrong. If you believe in God then you will find him always looking out for you in lifes trials and experiences. You will find yourself thanking him for the good and questioning his will for the bad. If you do not believe in God then there will be that scientific theory that every thing happens in sequences with logical explanations for every action and reaction. In the end, its all a matter of what you where taught to believe versus what you have grown to believe in your life experiences. Then a fine line where right and wrong meet (aka the shady/gray area). If you do believe in God then do so with all of your heart. If you do not believe in God, then you do not with all of your heart. As long as you do the right thing and you are comfortable with where you stand, then it should not matter what anyone else thinks. Its a shame that people can condem others for their beliefs or critisize others for either side of the coin. I say take a stand for what you believe and hold your ground firmly. Be the best person you can be and live your life the best way you know how. Raise your family in a tradition that will honor the family name. Peace on earth is and always will be the best for all concerned. You will always have the 10% to deal with in any case cause they dont know any better just like junior members who refuse to read the rules here and get banned for stupid stuff. Pick a side good or bad, right or wrong, wise or unwise.etc....Live and learn, and make changes where applicable.
I believe God created man and man has created God!

[Luci]

God is a God right?Satan is a God too ok?Satan helps "Bad" people and God good right?i never hear anyone say that satan helped me etc.i think about the whole thing relegion made this like a standar(just like metal music that only long-haired and drug taking people hear this music)they can't really proove anything they just say what it was said in the old days.
anyway i am saying that and i know god excists but i don't worship him(never go to church etc)

oh i heard some other say that god doesnt excist cause he is a soul and souls can't live without a body things like that.i don't care what everyone believes though i know what i know

[TylerDurden]

@CGL

Thats was definately a heartfelt explanation, and I appreciate it. I guess I believe more in the scientific side of the world. Ive lived a great deal of my life feeling this way and when I do something good or bad I dont feel as if Im being watched from above at all (or below for that matter, Luci).

As a matter of fact it feels good to be independant of a god. I never "seriously" cry out for him or his help. Nor do I thank him for any good that has befallen me. I just accept it all.


@Luci

As for satan, I also believe he is a form of story to scare us from doing evil. Another thing, he was probably invented by our minds to help take the blame off of the bad things we do. Like the way people say, "satan tempted me do this". Thats all bs, if you did something bad its because your mind chose to do it thats all.

Satan isnt any more to me than the toothfairy is.



Tyler!

[crazygamelover]

@TD

It sounds like you have reached a spiritual point in your life where nothing makes sence, yet all is clear. A state of confusion in the mix of a clear situation, or something close to that.

[Quall999]

This is a very complicated question. People are the most aware life forms on earth. But, does that mean that we are the only ones that have an afterlife? I know many religions believe we were created in gods image, and catholics believe that jesus died on the cross so we can exist in an afterlife. But what about all the other life on this planet? That would mean that every living thing here is gone forever once it dies, no matter how aware it is, because it is not human.

It would make alot of sense to say that people created god. I mean, why would we be the only ones on earth to be "saved"? The "jesus died on the cross" would be the perfect excuse on why only us have a "heaven" or "hell". Too perfect in my opinion. I used to go to church every week until last year, since then I have only gone once, on a religious holiday. My life hasn't gotten horribly worse since I stopped, so whos to say it will be better if I go again?

There is only one way to know, and I will find that out tonight...


No, lmao, j/k. sry, i couldn't resist that one. Anyways, I doubt god would want us to fight over religions, if he/she/it? exists, he/she/it? probably just wants us to acknowledge that. Kind of like "Dogma" (the movie). There is a difference between faith, and a belief. Faith is acknowledging god and doing what you think is right/wrong. A belief is something that is fought over, stating that your religion is the only one.

[JoyBoy]

There is No God. Trust me, I'm in the 'know' :cool:

[TylerDurden]

@CGL,

Not to sure on what to say about your last comment. I may have to think on that more.

@Quall

Yes this is a complicated subject and I felt it is a good one for debate. You make some good points and I will keep those in mind.

About the Dogma refrence, that too makes quite a bit of sense. Going by that, I have a serious problem with "belief".

As George Carlin once said "People should keep their religions to themselves." I think thats a good idea. Otherwise people will battle it out over which god is god and I think thats just stupid.

@ Bounty (the quick spill picker upper)

I would rather this be a debating thread and not just a "there is or isnt one, believe me" thread. If you dont believe there is a god then please post at least one reason why. So we can debate this.


@all

If we learn anything from this thread, I hope its that we see that everything should be questioned logically. And that going into something with your mind already made up is not the answer. I personally dont believe there is a god due to what Ive personally felt/whitnessed in my life but I am willing to listen to others posts and try to understand what they are saying. I am also willing to accept that I could be wrong.


Tyler!

[crazygamelover]

@all

If we learn anything from this thread, I hope its that we see that everything should be questioned logically. And that going into something with your mind already made up is not the answer. I personally dont believe there is a god due to what Ive personally felt/whitnessed in my life but I am willing to listen to others posts and try to understand what they are saying. I am also willing to accept that I could be wrong.


Tyler!

;) Just keep an open mind.

As for my last comment to you, it has to do with the true reason you posted this debate in the first place, which only you can answer. I feel you had or have something much larger than this debate as an issue governing your current state in life. If you ask me, I would almost say there is a disturbance in the force! :p Never the less, this is an issue that has been questioned/debated for generations and there is no perfect answer to your question just as there is no perfect solution for every issue in life. One can only make light of each given situation and do what he/she feels is the best. Just be true to yourself. ;) :cool:

[crazygamelover]

Sry about the double post here but I just wanted to share a quote I made to my crew at work. I got alot of feedback on this and touched a few hearts as they look into their own lives and make sence of this quote.
Quote: Originally from Me! :p

"The right path is seldomly well lit!"

Its up to you to chose what path is right for you in your life! Stand for what you believe in! Just dont stand in a pile of crap when you do! :D :cool:

[RincewindTheWiz]

Oh, Man definitely created Religion to while away the hours between consecutive Wars.




You gotta admit my oneliner is better than Bounty's :D

[krondike]

Thats exactly what Im saying. Religion basicaly sounds like a fairy tale or a story thats put out to make children be good.




Tyler!
Am I the only one, that's thinks if J.R.Tolkien (sorry If I misspell it) lived before our time, like before the rome time, 1000 year B.C, and written Lord of the Rings, that the book would be a holy bible, an own religion?
Becuase it's very much like any other religion, execpt for the life-style part. But look it now, we take greekmythology, as a mythology and not as a religion. It was a religion for those who belived and followed greekmythology! and we call it mythology. In 5000 years in the future, maybe we call Bible, a european-mythology, or bible-mythology etc.

There are realy strange religion in the world. So why should J.R. Tolkien have a breaktrough if he wrote it earlier and was a fanatic to make it a religion a lifestyle?! ;)

[AXmichigan]

i hadda class on tolkien
he was a good writer
he believed he was divinely inspired
aloooooooooot of his writings reflect that of the bible
his three upbringings were:
-anglo-saxon lit (beowulf)
-romanticism (wordsworth, etc..)
-roman catholicism
these 3 things made the structures of his belief
it was no new idea
but a synthesis of the three
(also WWII, industrial revolution, his love for trees, etc..)